D&D General Monster Expectations

[aco175]

I tend to have the base monster plus modified versions. Like what @Oofta said above, if the PCs ran into base gnolls before, then tell them there is one that looks more like a caster and another wearing more armor and looks like he has been in many battles. This allows the players to expect something a bit different on some or all the gnolls.

If you want to make CR5 the base for gnolls in your world you can, but maybe call them something else. Over time playing, the players learn certain things about the world and the game. Your game and world might be different than mine, but we have things that work the same. Is an orc and orc or a troll a troll. Then ask what would someone who grew up in said world would know about monsters, what about an adventurer who is going out to fight them. This is why I tend to keep the base monster so everyone playing can know trolls need fire to kill them. They can make up their mind when I tell them that this troll is different.

 

[Shardstone]

I don't believe in player expectations when it comes to monsters. If players what a rote experience every time they face a monster, they should play a board game instead. TTRPGs are games of human creativity; they are, by design, meant for us to tinker with.

 

[tetrasodium]

When the DM introduces a monster to a new party in a new campaign for the first time are they under any obligation to stick to the monster manual (of any other creature book)?

No and I'm at the point now that if an unreasonable player made that kind of demand I would tell them that the cost is a permanent reduction of an attribute my choosing for every page viewed while showing them the book so their character could reach past reality to see

If I say you encounter a band of Gnolls but I want that band to be CR 5 is that "screwing" the players expectations?

You as the gm should make one cr5 if you feel that cr6 is the proper cr for the encounter

 

[KYRON45]

No and I'm at the point now that if an unreasonable player made that kind of demand I would tell them that the cost is a permanent reduction of an attribute my choosing for every page viewed while showing them the book so their character could reach past reality to see

You as the gm should make one cr5 if you feel that cr6 is the proper cr for the encounter

I have found that players will often find a way to punish themselves somehow. They don't need my help there.

 

[the Jester]

Nothing wrong with it at all.

In my game last night, I used a big bird that was a relative of an axe beak- that had the equivalent of fighter levels. It had both Action Surge and Second Wind. I don't think anyone expected that, and it made the pcs immediately re-evaluate how tough this foe was going to be.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have found that players will often find a way to punish themselves somehow. They don't need my help there.

I would do it out of being fed up with that sort of obnoxious attempted helicopter GMing by players that imo/ime has gotten really bad in the last decade. If it makes players stop to think before trying to have their next Phoenix wright moment or encourages them to find some other table then the intended goal is met.

 

[Maxperson]

The entire time i was typing that i was saying to myself....don't misspell Gnoll.

There's an online pun/humor game called Kingdom of Loathing. In it they have a place called Degrassi Knoll and Gnolls live there.

 

[Shardstone]

Nothing wrong with it at all.

In my game last night, I used a big bird that was a relative of an axe beak- that had the equivalent of fighter levels. It had both Action Surge and Second Wind. I don't think anyone expected that, and it made the pcs immediately re-evaluate how tough this foe was going to be.

If a giant predatory bird ACTION SURGED in the wild while I was hunting it, I would probably lose my naughty word too.

 

[Maxperson]

Epic level mountain giant? Where the mountain is a bardic giant? Sounds fun!

Normal sized bards weren't enough? Now you have to threaten @Snarf Zagyg with supersized bards?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

When the DM introduces a monster to a new party in a new campaign for the first time are they under any obligation to stick to the monster manual (of any other creature book)?

If I say you encounter a band of Gnolls but I want that band to be CR 5 is that "screwing" the players expectations?

edit: i spelled Gnolls wrong.

Obligated to stick to the monster manual? No, I wouldn't think so.

I do, however, think that the DM is obligated to furnish real opportunities for the players to learn about how scary (or un-scary) an enemy is before they actually face it. Now, just because they get the opportunity does not mean they will in fact TAKE that opportunity. The DM is not responsible for players just straight-up making poor decisions or making boneheaded mistakes. It's necessarily a balancing act--finding the right balance point between parentalist hand-holding and obscurantist neglect. Different groups will likely fall at different points on that spectrum, so it behooves the DM to be thinking about this stuff.