D&D General Deborah Ann Woll Teaches Jon Bernthal D&D

[Snarf Zagyg]

Actually, I think that is exactly the effect of allowing D&D to be the generification of the hobby. Im fine if it means I have to empty the ocean with a teaspoon on this. Im tired of the ever looming cannibalization of games by D&D and the endless edition wars that dwarf all RPG discussion. YMMV.

I think that your perspective is valid, but that @Charlaquin is also correct.

When dealing with people outside of the hobby, "D&D" is a term that they use to refer to all TTRPGs. To them, every game that involves people getting together and rolling dice that isn't a board game is "D&D."

But I certainly agree that D&D is not the end-all, be-all of the hobby, and it is useful to explain the differences to people that are expressing an interest!

If I'm just in a casual conversation, like at a cocktail party, and someone refers to all the games as D&D, I just go with the flow. And throw a drink in their face. The drink in their face has nothing to do with D&D or names; it's just a manifestation of my inner malevolence.

ETA- I just remembered that I was listening to a Cautionary Tales podcast, and the host and guest were chatting. The guest asked the host about playing D&D, and the host acknowledged that he was playing D&D. He later clarified that he was actually playing a different game that was more story focused called Blades in the Dark.

 

[payn]

I think that your perspective is valid, but that @Charlaquin is also correct.

When dealing with people outside of the hobby, "D&D" is a term that they use to refer to all TTRPGs. To them, every game that involves people getting together and rolling dice that isn't a board game is "D&D."

But I certainly agree that D&D is not the end-all, be-all of the hobby, and it is useful to explain the differences to people that are expressing an interest!

If I'm just in a casual conversation, like at a cocktail party, and someone refers to all the games as D&D, I just go with the flow. And throw a drink in their face. The drink in their face has nothing to do with D&D or names; it's just a manifestation of my inner malevolence.

Its sad, but im still not on board with it and fully understand im an outlier in my resistance. I refuse to assimilate. I also never waste drinks on people's faces at parties, that is what the shrimp cocktail is for.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Its sad, but im still not on board with it and fully understand im an outlier in my resistance. I refuse to assimilate. I also never waste drinks on people's faces at parties, that is what the shrimp cocktail is for.

It's not wasted if you lick it off immediately.

 

[Charlaquin]

Actually, I think that is exactly the effect of allowing D&D to be the generification of the hobby. Im fine if it means I have to empty the ocean with a teaspoon on this. Im tired of the ever looming cannibalization of games by D&D and the endless edition wars that dwarf all RPG discussion. YMMV.

What I’m saying is, “D&D” being* the generic term doesn’t equate to it cannibalizing the hobby, any more than “coke” being the generic term for soda (in some dialects, anyway) cannibalizes the soda industry. It’s just a colloquial shorthand, people can use the term while still consuming, or outright preferring, other brands of the same type of product.

*I say “being” rather than “becoming” because this isn’t actually a new phenomenon - it’s been the case for at least as long as I’ve been aware of the hobby (some time in the mid-90s) and probably a lot longer than that. I’d be surprised to learn if it was ever not the case, given that D&D was the first such game.

 

[GMMichael]

What is it you're objecting to about this video? What's bugging you about the video that has you being so snarky about it? . . .
What's that all about man? What are you attempting to accomplish with this post, and why?

The video is pretty cool. It has two of my favorite Punisher actors talking about role-playing. That's cool. What's weird (if you really need something to be an objection) is that Deborah's "greatest game" comment sounds like it came straight out of Jeremy Crawford's mouth. She's smart, professional, and accomplished . . . enough to know how hyperbolic it sounds.

As for the "why," well, I have a secret agenda to destroy the entire RPG hobby, D&D included. I find that online forums are the best place for this quest, and post-by-post, I will turn everyone away from games and into non-stop social media feed scrollers. Obviously, I have some help in this quest, and we seem to be doing quite well from the looks of it.

Back in reality, overgeeked said that learning D&D is easy and can be done in 2 minutes. That's . . . worth discussing.

It's pretty apparent to me that both are subjective opinions. She's obviously speaking from a raw, emotional level of subjective passion to a friend/acquaintance of hers, even if it is a podcast. She's not shilling. You are being so critically literal. Do you hold yourself and your loved ones to this level of scrutiny?

I don't know what my loved ones have to do with this, but we can compare family photos if you really want.

Deborah might not be shilling, but I didn't hear her mention Pathfinder or Tales of the Valiant once.

Do you have a personal example opinion of an "X" being objectively the best version of a thing ever created? Is there an objectively best Star Wars movie? What if someone disagrees with you?

I'm not sure what objectively-best you're looking for, but I don't go around saying "McDonalds. Mmm, I'm loving it!" If I did, I'd expect someone to take issue with it. Myself included.

 

[Clint_L]

Deborah Ann Woll has spoken previously of her intense social anxiety, and of how D&D completely changed her life, allowing her to make connections while immersing herself in fantasy, imagination, storytelling, and acting - her passions. She has expressed how transformative it was for her, like a light switch being turned on. She's pretty much dedicated her life to it, ever since - at this point, it seems like acting is her side hustle.

I'd be surprised if most of us who care enough about TTRPGs to frequent this forum haven't had a similar experience.

As for shilling for D&D: you never forget your first. She plays other TTRPGs, as does just about everyone here, I'm sure. D&D isn't even generally my favourite TTRPG, depending on the day of the week. But D&D (1e, specifically) changed my life, and I will always love it for that. Also, she is talking to a non-gamer who knows she plays D&D, it's probably the only TTRPG he's heard of, and he asked about it...I mean, what do you expect?

I'd think other folks who love this hobby would cut her some slack. Geez.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'd think other folks who love this hobby would cut her some slack. Geez.

Great comment! I agree with everything, and will subscribe to your newsletter.... but ....

Have you met the people who are in our hobby? If not, I will direct you to any of the 65,382 threads* about the edition change.


*Numbers are approximate, yet also completely accurate.

 

[Mistwell]

The video is pretty cool. It has two of my favorite Punisher actors talking about role-playing. That's cool. What's weird (if you really need something to be an objection) is that Deborah's "greatest game" comment sounds like it came straight out of Jeremy Crawford's mouth. She's smart, professional, and accomplished . . . enough to know how hyperbolic it sounds.

I don't think she's being hyperbolic at all. She explained why - how it basically saved her during the pandemic. How introverted she usually is, and how the game helps her deal with that so much. She's being 100% genuine. It has nothing to do with WOTC or Crawford or anything other than where she is coming from and how she feels about the game.

A lot of us feel that same way about this game. Frankly, given you've been on ENWorld so long, I suspect at some point in your life you felt that way about this game too.

There is no WOTC cause involved with this. There is no bad motive to suspect. Someone is just passionate and enthusiastic about D&D. Why is that something to be suspect about? Why are you reacting so negatively to that emotion in someone else?

As for the "why," well, I have a secret agenda to destroy the entire RPG hobby, D&D included. I find that online forums are the best place for this quest, and post-by-post, I will turn everyone away from games and into non-stop social media feed scrollers. Obviously, I have some help in this quest, and we seem to be doing quite well from the looks of it.

Back in reality, overgeeked said that learning D&D is easy and can be done in 2 minutes. That's . . . worth discussing.


I don't know what my loved ones have to do with this, but we can compare family photos if you really want.

Deborah might not be shilling, but I didn't hear her mention Pathfinder or Tales of the Valiant once.

She honestly may have never even heard of either. She's primarily an actor. My wife is primarily an actor, knows all about D&D because of me, and has never heard of Pathfinder or Tales of the Valiant. Heck, I barely know about Tales of the Valiant. Why would she have to promote a different game like one of those if she's just talking about a game she loves? I think by "greatest game ever" she, an actress, is thinking things like Monopoly, Chess, Poker, etc.. Not a deep review of all the tabletop role playing games that exist.

I really think you're a bit caught in the weeds on this one. If I were hyper passionate about pecan pie, would you be bothered I didn't mention apple and cherry pie? Would you be claiming I am a shill for Big Pecan? Why do you appear so triggered a person is passionate about D&D that you'd question their motives and be bothered they didn't mention other games when talking about their passion for D&D?

IT'S WEIRD. YOUR REACTION IS WEIRD, AND WHEN ASKED TO CLARIFY, YOU'RE ACTING LIKE IT'S SELF EVIDENT WHY YOU'D REACT SO WEIRD. IT'S NOT SELF EVIDENT. WHY ARE YOU SO BOTHERED BY THIS?

I'm not sure what objectively-best you're looking for, but I don't go around saying "McDonalds. Mmm, I'm loving it!" If I did, I'd expect someone to take issue with it. Myself included.

I truly don't understand that analogy. I don't see how passion for D&D is the same as loving McDonalds, or why you'd expect people to be upset about that either?

Lemme ask you this. Do you just hate D&D right now, or hate WOTC and therefore D&D by extension? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it's relevant.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The video is pretty cool. It has two of my favorite Punisher actors talking about role-playing. That's cool. What's weird (if you really need something to be an objection) is that Deborah's "greatest game" comment sounds like it came straight out of Jeremy Crawford's mouth. She's smart, professional, and accomplished . . . enough to know how hyperbolic it sounds.

Deborah might not be shilling, but I didn't hear her mention Pathfinder or Tales of the Valiant once.

Shhh... don't tell anyone, but any game made with D&D rules is pretty much a D&D variant/clone, and all D&D is D&D, even if a 3rd party wrote it or if a particular individual isn't fond of its presentation.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the negative reaction some folks have to her describing D&D as “the greatest game ever created” is understandable. The things she highlights about what makes D&D so great are not really unique to D&D, in fact they’re common to all roleplaying games. To see D&D praised so highly for characteristics it shares with all of the countless games of its type could understandably be grating, especially if you’re not fond of the specific game mechanics of D&D, and I don’t think that’s at all unfair or weird of people to express.

By the same token, we would do well to keep the context in mind. She’s talking to someone who has heard of D&D, but who’s closest point of comparison is board games. The idea of a roleplaying game is alien to him, but he’s curious enough about it to be asking her to explain it. In this context, if you want to convert this person to an RPG fan, it makes perfect sense to talk up the roleplaying game he has heard of and is asking questions about, and to focus on the things about it that make all roleplaying games great. Diving right into specific systems and why actually, this other game that’s like D&D is way better, and he should try that instead. Much better to get them hooked on the gateway drug first before introducing the idea of other systems.