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WotC How much does Hasbro / WotC impact your feelings towards D&D?

How much does Hasbro / WotC impact your feelings towards D&D?

  • 5

    Votes: 63 18.6%
  • 4

    Votes: 28 8.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 52 15.3%
  • 2

    Votes: 61 18.0%
  • 1

    Votes: 135 39.8%

How familiar are you with thesis of Chockepoint Capitalism, as presented by writers Rebecca Giblin and Cory Doctorow?
I have read it. What proportion of creatives do you think work for WotC on their 3-4 books a year vs the rest of the creatice TTRPG industry? Second question. Do you think that proportion is enough to constitute a chokepoint? Third question. If it is possible to exercise chokepoint control do you think creatives have worse or better conditions working at WotC
 

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What exactly am I example of here? I haven't caught up to the whole thread before replying
It’s just that you had a mix there of things they did (Pinkertons) alongside an assumption (D&D Beyond as a chokepoint) and an opinion based on a direction that they’re not necessarily taking (D&D becoming an MMO), so it’s a little tough to digest or agree with the entire point.

Keep in mind: if every company could simply build a walled garden, and profit from it, they would. It’s not a given that WotC/Hasbro would succeed.
 

Lotta folks here naively assuming that what WotC does has nothing to do with they make. Seeing a lot of opinions that amount to, "I voted '1'. I'm not bothered by their decisions, because it doesn't affect the product(s) they offer."

Except it does.

Not that I'd be thrilled if they were, say, dumping toxic waste into the ocean, but that's not what's going on here. The OGL fiasco, hiring the Pinkertons, saying we're not monetized enough, using AI. . . these aren't United Fruit Company levels of evil. What's notable is how they're all rooted in contempt for their own customers. You know. . . the people who buy the stuff they make. Us. They openly hate us.

How on Earth can folks here believe that such brutal and direct contempt at you won't affect the quality of the product??

I mean if you like it, great. . . I'm not here to badwrongfun. But liking something isn't the same as self-respect. Folks in America regularly enjoy fast food, but most are honest in that they're not calling it fine dining. I've played a lot of D&D5, but over the years the changes have gotten steadily worse, and there's no way that's unrelated to that "screw the customer" attitude coming from the top. It's by far the most likely place it's coming from!
 

I mean if you like it, great. . . I'm not here to badwrongfun. But liking something isn't the same as self-respect. Folks in America regularly enjoy fast food, but most are honest in that they're not calling it fine dining. I've played a lot of D&D5, but over the years the changes have gotten steadily worse, and there's no way that's unrelated to that "screw the customer" attitude coming from the top. It's by far the most likely place it's coming from!
I guess that depends on what changes you're looking at. If you're looking at the changes that push the look and feel of inclusiveness and character build flexibility like removing the stat boosts from character species, then I don't see how that could come from a "screw the customer" attitude coming from the top.
 

Us. They openly hate us.
No, they don't: the investors are utterly indifferent to "us". Just as we are propey indifferent to them.

The people making the game, though, are "us" even if the investors are indifferent to those employees (and how could they be anything but indifferent, they don't know us, we don't know them). The designers are making the game, not the investors. So, o, Crawford, Perkins, and company do not "hate us". They enjoy the game, and that comes across. That's why I like what they make, even if I am indifferent to their corporate structure.
 


so they are intentionally making products worse because they despise us?

Doesn’t sound like a good strategy… maybe it is just that you do not like the direction even when the majority does (I am in the same boat)
Some segment of OSR gamers on Twitter are grousing about how the Heroes Feast Spell in the PHB has tacos and sushi (but North American pumpkins are "normal food" so we know what they mean). They are claiming thst the artists involved "hate D&D and fantasy".
 

Keep in mind: if every company could simply build a walled garden, and profit from it, they would.
They do.

so it’s a little tough to digest or agree with the entire point.
I was presenting very shortened and simplified version of a full argument for simplicity, I do not care about making me an example of something without asking for clarification first.

I have read it. What proportion of creatives do you think work for WotC on their 3-4 books a year vs the rest of the creatice TTRPG industry? Second question. Do you think that proportion is enough to constitute a chokepoint? Third question. If it is possible to exercise chokepoint control do you think creatives have worse or better conditions working at WotC
The physical media cannot be a chokepoint. WotC is currently trying to turn D&DBeyond into a CHokepoint - hence their attempt that making it a marketplace where you can buy both main and third party content, but also testing place where you can rate playtest material and a place where you have access to your sheet, books AND new VTT software. Hence why the only thing to scare them during OGL debacle was people massively leaving D&DBeyond. Even their latest behavior is consistent with the actions of established chokepoint - albeit fired prematurely. It's all building towards make D&DBeyond a necessary tool for interacting with the game, which is why it is pushed as such default even in their own adds they show people putting away books and dice while at one table, to use D&DBeyond instead. Once they control the means through which us, the customers, interact with the producers of goods (MCDM, Kobold Press, Ghostfire Gaming), they can do things like force changes into which books you are using (hence why attempt to replace old spells with new was "firing prematurely" - they haven't yet caught enough fish into the net to comfortably pull such trick), ramp up the prices, start taking bigger cuts from 3rd party book sales etc. They won't have a monopoly (DriveThruRpg is already a similiar chokepoint, but even then WotC has their hand in that one through DMs Guild, ditto for Paradox and Storyteller's Vault and Paizo and Pathfinder Infinite). This thing is very deliberately built to control the way you play and ensure it is done in a way that allows WotC to squeze every last drop of blood from you.
 

Lotta folks here naively assuming that what WotC does has nothing to do with they make. Seeing a lot of opinions that amount to, "I voted '1'. I'm not bothered by their decisions, because it doesn't affect the product(s) they offer."

Except it does.

Not that I'd be thrilled if they were, say, dumping toxic waste into the ocean, but that's not what's going on here. The OGL fiasco, hiring the Pinkertons, saying we're not monetized enough, using AI. . . these aren't United Fruit Company levels of evil. What's notable is how they're all rooted in contempt for their own customers. You know. . . the people who buy the stuff they make. Us. They openly hate us.

How on Earth can folks here believe that such brutal and direct contempt at you won't affect the quality of the product??

I mean if you like it, great. . . I'm not here to badwrongfun. But liking something isn't the same as self-respect. Folks in America regularly enjoy fast food, but most are honest in that they're not calling it fine dining. I've played a lot of D&D5, but over the years the changes have gotten steadily worse, and there's no way that's unrelated to that "screw the customer" attitude coming from the top. It's by far the most likely place it's coming from!
Maybe because what you have mentioned doesn’t come across as brutal and direct contempt for customers. Let alone hate.

In fact, the fact that you think it does… AND the fact that you ignore the positive things they do… makes that level of exaggeration really hard to empathize with.

I mean do you really think the managers at WotC hate you because they tried unsuccessfully to receive the terms of their IP license? They hate YOU because they sent a baliff agency to recover products delivered in error that that recipient wouldn’t return?

You might find it heavy handed, clumsy even, but hateful? Come on man.
 

so they are intentionally making products worse because they despise us?
That's literally what the OGL fiasco was: a massive downgrade of the D&D experience for an unhinged cash grab.

They were forced to backtrack, but there's the rub: it was only because their customers howled with outrage -- or more likely, the massive wave of unsubscriptions that followed -- that they retreated.

And yes, it was a bad strategy. A customer-centric business wouldn't have pushed that nonsense in the first place.
 

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