D&D (2024) Spirt Guardians

[OB1]

@Lazybones couldn't agree more with your post. If the cleric is willing to draw a LOT of aggro to do this, more power to her. It's a decent spell, but even fully exploited with a party built arround it, it's a tactic that will only be really good in very specific encounters.

 

[Lazybones]

No one is assuming the cleric stays far away or that the monsters do nothing. Like seriously?

Like I said, I would want to see how this works in practice. Some of the posts I have seen discussing this tactic seem to assume it's an automatic "I win" button. I believe that this is the purpose of a discussion thread, to discuss the pros and cons of it and whether it needs a house rule? So don't just try to shut down my comment by suggesting that it's foolish to even raise the point.

 

[FrogReaver]

This does seem like an extremely powerful tactic against multiple weak foes. I could see this clearing out a room full of low-CR Beasts in one round, given the right conditions

Yes. But it doesn’t have to clear enemies out in a single round to be effective.

(i.e., it's less effective if there isn't enough room to maneuver around the battlefield,

So do something else in that situation. A tactic need not be 100% amazing in every imaginable situation to be good.

or if the enemies are spread out).

still like 3x as good as old spirit guardians on spread out enemies.

 

[Lazybones]

*grappling someone is not carrying them.

Colloquially we might refer to moving around a grappled creature as carrying them but by the rules those are 2 different things.

So how would you adjudicate this in a combat situation? Is picking up an ally a free action, or an action? I would treat it as a grapple where the ally could choose to automatically fail the saving throw. The grapple rules refer to "creatures," not "enemies." If you could cite the rule that describes how to pick up an ally and move them as distinct from grappling, that would help me better understand the dynamic.

 

[FrogReaver]

So how would you adjudicate this in a combat situation? Is picking up an ally a free action, or an action? I would treat it as a grapple where the ally could choose to automatically fail the saving throw. The grapple rules refer to "creatures," not "enemies." If you could cite the rule that describes how to pick up an ally and move them as distinct from grappling, that would help me better understand the dynamic.

I just said it was through the grappling rules. Grappling and moving is not carrying.

 

[Lazybones]

Yes. But it doesn’t have to clear enemies out in a single round to be effective.

So do something else in that situation. A tactic need not be 100% amazing in every imaginable situation to be good.

still like 3x as good as old spirit guardians on spread out enemies.

I am not disputing any of this. I am only asking whether the tactic is OP enough to require a house rule. You seem to think it is. Others posting in this thread seem to think it isn't. I haven't decided yet. I am still digesting the new rules and am considering which house rules to add if and when I start a new 2024 campaign.

 

[Lazybones]

I just said it was through the grappling rules. Grappling and moving is not carrying.

I am not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that the Carrying Capacity rules don't apply to grappled targets? So a character with 8 Str can grab an armored orog and run him around (at full speed, if they have the Grappler feat)?

EDIT: I will note that the Grappled Condition specifically states, "The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves..."

 

[FrogReaver]

I am not disputing any of this. I am only asking whether the tactic is OP enough to require a house rule. You seem to think it is.

Okay good. I don’t think it needs a houserule. Nor do I prefer one. I think most ally’s need large investment to make this extremely effective, but it’s still solid in enough situations even without heavy investment. I think some groups might prefer the houserule and that’s fine too.

Others posting in this thread seem to think it isn't. I haven't decided yet. I am still digesting the new rules and am considering which house rules to add if and when I start a new 2024 campaign.

Got ya. Seemed like you were claiming more. But all good.

 

[FrogReaver]

I am not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that the Carrying Capacity rules don't apply to grappled targets? So a character with 8 Str can grab an armored orog and run him around (at full speed, if they have the Grappler feat)?

EDIT: I will note that the Grappled Condition specifically states, "The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves..."

Dragging is not carrying. Carrying Capacity doesn’t apply to dragging.

 

[mellored]

*grappling someone is not carrying them.

It is by RAW.
"The grappler can drag or carry you".