D&D 5E What level is optimal to test homebrew classes?

[EzekielRaiden]

Well you can let them summon and delay the subclass until 3. That's how you would do it. The summon transforms into your merging idea.

I....really really really REALLY think that is a bad idea that opens all sorts of questions from the player e.g. "well why can't I choose to summon it the normal way anymore? Why do I have to do this this way now? Why can't I do both things by spending more resources or something?" etc.

This closes loopholes and makes sure you don't get silly, wonky stuff coming out. Yes, it defies the 5.5e conventions, but I started this before "One D&D" even had a name. I'm not really interested in changing it now. Not that this is even the appropriate thread to have a debate about it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I....really really really REALLY think that is a bad idea that opens all sorts of questions from the player e.g. "well why can't I choose to summon it the normal way anymore? Why do I have to do this this way now? Why can't I do both things by spending more resources or something?" etc.

This closes loopholes and makes sure you don't get silly, wonky stuff coming out. Yes, it defies the 5.5e conventions, but I started this before "One D&D" even had a name. I'm not really interested in changing it now. Not that this is even the appropriate thread to have a debate about it.

You coukd tweak it 5.5 power levels and think screw it level 1.

 

[TwoSix]

All of them, really, but 3, 5, 11, 17, and 20 are of special importance. Compare it against a class that does a similar role. Check if it's at-wills damage falls between rogue and fighter. Make sure there's trade offs.

Those are the definitely the levels to check to make sure that the power-scaling is on point.

Level 10 is what I would check to make sure that the concept has fully cohered and is doing what you expect. If all of the main play loops and features aren't online and doing what you expect by 10, that's when you need to make adjustments.

Everything 11+ should just be refinements and expansions of what's come before.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Everything 11+ should just be refinements and expansions of what's come before.

The only reason I quibble about ignoring higher-level stuff is that...well, I mean, we have pretty good evidence that "eh, everything after 3rd level spells is just more of the same" was the logic behind 3rd edition, and look how that turned out.

At least a quick check/test at 17, when the final cantrip boost comes online, seems like a smart move. Doesn't have to be as extensive as the other stuff, but just...run it through its paces. Try to break it open. See what happens. If even with concerted effort you can't make it sing, it's very likely too weak. If you're demolishing level-matched fights almost single-handed...maybe tone it down a bit.

 

[GrimCo]

While testing up to lv 17 has it's merits, then you may as well test it to full 20. But personally, i find it usually waste of time to even develop anything above level 10, cause most campaigns end in that 8-10 lv range. If OP regularly runs campaigns in teen levels, then it makes sense. Otherwise, better save time.

 

[TwoSix]

The only reason I quibble about ignoring higher-level stuff is that...well, I mean, we have pretty good evidence that "eh, everything after 3rd level spells is just more of the same" was the logic behind 3rd edition, and look how that turned out.

At least a quick check/test at 17, when the final cantrip boost comes online, seems like a smart move. Doesn't have to be as extensive as the other stuff, but just...run it through its paces. Try to break it open. See what happens. If even with concerted effort you can't make it sing, it's very likely too weak. If you're demolishing level-matched fights almost single-handed...maybe tone it down a bit.

Oh, I definitely don't think you should ignore it in terms of balance, for sure. But in terms of overall play experience and concepts being used, I generally like to see a class feeling like what it should be ideally by 6th, and definitely by 10th.

 

[Jaiken]

Thank you everyone for the help.

 

[Blue]

In addition to the various levels, you also need to look at it from a multiclassing perspective, both with it cherry picked by other classes and does it benefit greatly from cherry picking (and the subset starting-with) another class.

 

[Blue]

I started to read this and at level 1 it's already more powerful than monk, with everything the monk gets plus larger Hit Dice per level and all simple and martial weapons. An unarmored defense (and please rename it instead of trying to have the same type of feature but with your own names to that because there are rules in multiclassing about it) of two ability scores, plus martial arts. 2 skills, 1 tool. Actually, the martial arts is better because it's not limited to monk weapons.

So at first level I can make an attack with a two handed sword and a bonus action martial arts attack (with adding my ability score to damage) every round.

This is overpowered at level 1 and needs to be reworked from there, which will likely affect later levels so I won't bother with them yet.

 

[Jaiken]

I started to read this and at level 1 it's already more powerful than monk, with everything the monk gets plus larger Hit Dice per level and all simple and martial weapons. An unarmored defense (and please rename it instead of trying to have the same type of feature but with your own names to that because there are rules in multiclassing about it) of two ability scores, plus martial arts. 2 skills, 1 tool. Actually, the martial arts is better because it's not limited to monk weapons.

So at first level I can make an attack with a two handed sword and a bonus action martial arts attack (with adding my ability score to damage) every round.

This is overpowered at level 1 and needs to be reworked from there, which will likely affect later levels so I won't bother with them yet.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will get rid of martial weapons proficiency.