D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[Zardnaar]

I love Dark Sun. After Ravenloft, my favourite official setting. One of the reasons i like it it's cause it so much different than other settings. Like someone said, practically game of it's own with 2ed d&d base mechanics.

And if it were ever updated, i would buy it in a heartbeat. Not for the fluff, that i can do myself and use old DS materials (although, i'm not above using fluff that i like), but for the crunch. Converting old 2ed crunch to 5ed one is PIA work i would rather pay someone else to do.

Assuming they didn't screw up the crunch that's what I would do.

I don't think 5E is good for Darksun though. To much Magic, psionics there's lots of third party and healing to easy.

Square peg, round hole.

2E DS is a bit of a pita to run due to required materials nowadays. Players don't care that much about psionics either.

 

[Retros_x]

Nowadays... some folks seem to have forgotten what we collectively decided was evil decades or even centuries ago.

off topic, but I feel its more like media literacy gone worse. Nowadays alot of folks need that someone in the content they consume clearly adresses the issues and categorize them as evil and bad. I read so many threads of people not liking movie/book/series XY because the character Z is such an a-hole/evil etc. - not realizing the fact that the authors probably agree with them and thats the point. But because it was not explicitly pointed out to them and they had to make the realization themselves, they assumed the authors supported these ideas. Implications and subtext are harder to understand in times of social media content creators screaming at your face what you are supposed to think I guess.

Back to topic: Love your approach! I never played anything in Dark Sun (before my D&D times), but what I heard always sounded intriguing. Would love a new rendition of the setting with an approach like that.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Ironically in my experience many Cyberpunk stories I've encountered seem to lean more towards the cynical take where hope is foolish, so look out for yourself.

I have heard it put as you can't save the world but you can save yourself.
problem with that what is the point of saving yourself if you still have to live in hell?

Most of that isn't any worse than Baldurs Gate 3.

Stick a R18 label on it.

I would tone things down somewhat. Cannibalistic Halflings would still exist. They would do it to intruders though and they see themselves as protectors of the forest ridge. They don't hunt you unless you're uninvited. They also wouldn't hunt children if one wandered into their lands.

And the past is a mystery I woukd use the original set ignoring everything after that. Don't retcon stuff away but leave it in the past. You can use that material if you like or write your own.

Then you can just go through and tweak what's let. Halfllng thing could hint at their origin post 1991 set but leave it ambiguous. They're reclusive forest protectors who are into recycling. If you're uninvited the recycling may be you though. Reason they're xenophobic is rest of the planet. Death to defiler and slavers.

look there are some fairly unpleasant tropes associated with cannibalistic small folk I do not think it is a viable direction.

Oh, I know what a certain modern audience would say. Starts with 'w' and ends with completely being stripped of its actual meaning over the past decade.

well we know who to use for the local templar dialogue as clear these are the suck-ups who would join up for the chance to hurt people.

It'd be great if we could stop slandering the poor halflings. They are not cannibals. A cannibal eats their own kind, and halflings would never* eat other halflings. They eat elves, dwarves, humans, and such if the opportunity presents itself, but not other halflings. They are no more cannibals than a crocodile eating a human would be.

I don't think the mul need another name. Eberron half-elves have their own name for themselves (khoravar), because they have their own culture that's independent both of elven and human culture. Mul don't, and kind of can't, because they're sterile and often orphans (it's mentioned that giving birth to a mul is often fatal to the mother – less so when the mother is dwarven, but still pretty nasty).

I think that while a detailed price list could send the wrong signal, it would still be useful to have price ranges specified. I remember that in the Verdant Passage novel, one of the main characters bought another of the main characters at an auction for the exorbitant price of 1 gp (equivalent of 100 gp in other settings due to Dark Sun metals being more valuable), and having an idea that this kind of price is extreme would be good. Perhaps something like "Slavers would charge 5-10 cp for the life of a common laborer, with more specialized slaves fetching higher prices up to 100 cp for a star gladiator."

As I recall, the OG box did not have prices for slaves, but they were probably included in either the Dune Trader or The Ivory Triangle sourcebooks.

og dark sun halflings are the progenitor form of most humanoids thus cannibalism just different from what we deal with as we ran out of other homonids to be evil to.

 

[dmar]

I’m working on several future campaign ideas and one is inspired by Darksun. I’ll summarize with minimal spoilers.

This world has been thrown off its orbit by a cataclysmic event (a battle vs. Great Evil). Inching closer to the sun, getting hotter and drier.

One portal to other planes, in a remote city-state, is the lifeline of the planet: food, water from the elemental planes, etc come through it. Trade is tightly controlled by the ruler (sorcerer-king) of this city. The trip from the other cities is difficult (Silk Route + desert mutants), but all of them have things required to maintain this trade. It is a green string of cities in the wasteland, forming an umbilical cord to the outside.

Each city state is different, not just culturally but they have different assets to trade, their rulers have different personalities and portfolios and the forces of good have different agendas. For example, the ruler of one city is a gestalt psychic entity that can possess its subjects. Other is a religious, messianic figure and is the only one who empowers clerics (templars).

This rulers were heroes who defeated the Great Evil, were awarded cities by an Emperor; the emperor was wary of them, bred muls (they are not related to human or dwarf, but product of magical genetic engineering) specifically for war against them (and there are failed attempts at this, like the Blood Nomads deep in the desert).

This emperor was defeater by the rulers in the end, and now they have instituted slavery and mantain a precarious and unjust system over the ashes of a formerly thriving world.

The moment of hope would come after a long campaign, when the PCs re-defeat said Great Evil, which is afoot again, discover the origin of the rulers and are now in a position (legitimacy and character level) where they can challenge them.

 

[Mind of tempest]

what kind of hellish wildlife is there in this?
I know of some rather unpleasant options

if it is to be an unofficial darksun alike is power still going to have a cost and does it still slowly make you estranged from your humanity regardless of your morals(with the good guy option being equally strange if perhaps less horrific to look at?)

I remember a Kickstarter failing from being to close to Darksun.

 

[abirdcall]

off topic, but I feel its more like media literacy gone worse. Nowadays alot of folks need that someone in the content they consume clearly adresses the issues and categorize them as evil and bad. I read so many threads of people not liking movie/book/series XY because the character Z is such an a-hole/evil etc. - not realizing the fact that the authors probably agree with them and thats the point. But because it was not explicitly pointed out to them and they had to make the realization themselves, they assumed the authors supported these ideas. Implications and subtext are harder to understand in times of social media content creators screaming at your face what you are supposed to think I guess.

Back to topic: Love your approach! I never played anything in Dark Sun (before my D&D times), but what I heard always sounded intriguing. Would love a new rendition of the setting with an approach like that.

There is a lot of media where the point is to show how the protagonist is a troubled man who suffers because of his toxic traits but what people takeaway from it is that he is a super cool badass.

Even if the intent is clear and understood. That is still the imagery of what is on the screen.

So while authorial intent is important, the actual work is as much or more important.

While there is nuance, on the whole I would rather engage with media with characters I like and admire.

 

[Steampunkette]

So here's a thing I didn't touch on, before but really should have:

The idea that every character has a "Motivation" as a specific Dark Sun flavor addition.

It's the -way- you have hope. Forget about alignments, those are only restrictive straight jackets to characterization and action choices. No, motivations are fundamental, but important, and change over time, and give you something to fall back on.

Whatever your motivation is allows you to gain inspiration or other benefits when you call it out and use it.

You just took a big hit in combat, you're knocked prone, you're at a level beneath your opponent, whatever the trigger is, you activate your "Spite" motivation to gain inspiration and spit on fate and circumstance to royally mess up your enemy's day 'cause -screw- that guy!

Trigger your "Love" motivation to fight harder for the people you care about. Trigger your "Brighter Future" motivation to strain and struggle to overcome your current situation. Trigger your "Found Family" motivation or your "Radical Kindness" motivation or whatever other motivation you have.

And then each motivation has a different function unique to it. Like Love could let you do a space-swap or dive in the way of an attack. Radical Kindness can let you nonmagically charm an enemy for a while. Found Family lets you share hit points between characters.

Still uses up your Motivation until a short rest or something, so you can't -also- gain inspiration... but, y'know. Unique options to go with the general benefit so depending on need you can use one or the other.

And then you can also do characterization through your motivation but it's way more flexible than alignment. A spite character can be your edgelord rogue who spites the party as much as they spite the enemy... Or they can be a protective maternal figure who lashes out at foes after years of abuse and emotional pain because screw them for hurting your people.

Thri-Kreen "Found Family" would look a lot different from a human "Found Family" versus an Elf's "Found Family".

Also, yes, I would ditch the elves as wandering thieves and tricksters angle. Still keep the nomadic lifestyle and running across the sands, but now they do it with herds of crodlu (for the peaceful groups) or ready violence (for the raiders). If someone wanted to play a more tricksy thiefly type they can, of course, but the "Race as Culture" stand in setup needs to go.

As far as halfling cannibals: I ascribe to the idea that eating -any- sapient is cannibalism. Doesn't matter if you're a halfling and your dinner is a dwarf, it's still cannibalism.

Also the cannibal halflings are outcasts who tend to resort to cannibalism when kicked out of their communities on the Forest Ridge for lack of better options, though the identity/label/expectation gets assigned to all halflings 'cause the only halflings most people meet are going to be the cannibal exiles who are doing it to survive. Deeper into the Forest Ridge, amongst the actual halfling tribes and towns, no cannibals to be found.

Also, again, I can't stress this hard enough: "Race as Culture" needs to go out of the window. That includes nonhalfling Preservers living in Halfling communities. It also means Tyr isn't "99% human plus some demihumans passing through and mul or dwarf slaves from Kled". Way more racial diversity in all the major communities and cultural variety, too. Definitely a "City State" specific culture available, for people who want that, but also different cultural identities that anyone can take.

The only exception I'd make is Thri-Kreen, and only because their whole life-cycle schtick doesn't work for pretty much anyone else. Elves might be able to keep pace with their leaping across the dunes and freaky-deaky sleep schedule, but their whole reproductive cycle and socialization structure keeps most people away. Also if you get too near to a clutch of eggs they will go into "Blender Mode" faster than you can apologize. The intent, there, is just to keep them "Alien" as much as possible.

"But what about humans and dwarves living in elf tribes! They can't run eternally across the sands!" No but they can ride Crodlu, which I have decided can also do the elfrun schtick and carry a sleeping human rider to keep up with the elf runners. Problem solved!

Anyway, yeah. Couple more important notes to keep the setting from becoming a racist morass and to highlight the hope.

 

[payn]

So here's a thing I didn't touch on, before but really should have:

The idea that every character has a "Motivation" as a specific Dark Sun flavor addition.

It's the -way- you have hope. Forget about alignments, those are only restrictive straight jackets to characterization and action choices. No, motivations are fundamental, but important, and change over time, and give you something to fall back on.

Stopped reading here. Im sorry but this idea sounds much more like a mandate than alignment ever did.

 

[Remathilis]

As far as halfling cannibals: I ascribe to the idea that eating -any- sapient is cannibalism. Doesn't matter if you're a halfling and your dinner is a dwarf, it's still cannibalism.

I have a player who insists that eating dragons should be a culinary high point. In his own game, dragon steaks are served at the major expensive meals and when he fought a dragon in my game, he always got out the butchers knife. Personally, I think the eating of sentient beings is cannibalism regardless of body type and composition. He eventually stopped doing it in my game, but it really highlights what people consider ethical consumption would be very different in a fantasy world.

 

[Steampunkette]

Stopped reading here. Im sorry but this idea sounds much more like a mandate than alignment ever did.

Wish you hadn't.

The idea is to have a mechanical benefit you can whip out at a moment's notice and tie to a motivation. But that you can change out pretty much whenever you want. Fueled by Spite against the Sorcerer king's templars. By love the next day. By Found Family another time.

And then you can choose to RP out that motivation if it's one you hang on to, or drop when it's inconvenient.