D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

Weren't 'priests' in Dark Sun not even the kind of priest people typically pretend needs to the only kind of priest? As in, no gods needed, you just believe in something really, really hard?

Also, they're like... 'elemental' priests; basically wizards with the healing D&D grudgingly admits it needs even in the survival setting.
 

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I think Warlock pacts make even more sense in a world where studying magic is illegal and bards are expected to be spies and assassins for corrupt nobles. Not to mention Athas is harsh; desperation & unwise bargains go together like chocolate & PB.

^This.

"Shortcuts" as pacts are often seen. Are a natural fit for a world where death is around the corner, denizens are looking for any edge to survive and malignant entities are looking to exploit that.
 




^This.

"Shortcuts" as pacts are often seen. Are a natural fit for a world where death is around the corner, denizens are looking for any edge to survive and malignant entities are looking to exploit that.
Plus canon gives us plenty of options.elemental plane access means we have genies; archfey reside in the Land Within the Winds. Rakshasas work for fiends, Undeath patrons can be Dregoth or entities in the Gray, while mysterious psionic entities like the Mind Lords can be GOOs.
 

Couldn't say. I don't see a fault there 😉
Torches and pitchforks.

How are bard magic and wizard magic in any way related? Bard magic is even directly portrayed as having a different source than Elminster's girlfriend.

Why does the God of Magic provide divine spells?

How do celestial patrons able to hand out arcane spells?

If we can accept 'primal' for druids and archer druids who sometimes have pets, dual wield and have skill points, but not the important part of the druid people care about, why can't there be other actual sources?

Why is every D&D attempt at categorizing a thing so riddled with confusing design choices and yet somehow we can't have proper keywording?

This should be its own thread, but I'm pretty sure I've never created a thread on this board and it would be a shame to break a streak.
 

When I ran Dark Sun last year, templars were the closest thing to a "cleric/priest" analogue. The sorcerer-kings would do rituals that allowed templars to tap into the latent divine energy that still existed on the planet. They let the templars think that the sorcerer-king was the source of the powers, and templars who start to suspect the truth don't tend to live very long.

Templars were simultaneously courtiers, enforcers of the kings' mandates, but also healers and protectors, so they had a very complicated relationship with the populace.

Not canon, of course, but I find canon pretty meaningless compared to the fun of new takes.
 

I mean that is very similar in practice. Just, a minute instead of an hour if you seek to avoid defiling..
Not really? In practice a character can get more than 1 short rest in a day and "Preserve" while casting more spell levels, total through the day, but less high end available at a time.

And then Defiling becomes an active choice in combat, rather than an out of combat 'Micro-Rest' which better plays into the narrative and choice. 'Cause if you're out of spell points in the middle of a fight and about to die, you can defile to get a bunch back and save yourself.

You can't if you've already "Preserved" your points with a 1 minute ritual.

Also a lot of players might just say they "Preserve" at the end of a long rest so they have full spell points with no defiling at all.

I dunno. Definitely ways to do it!
Aarakocra- use the Harpy Heritage from MoAR: Complete for these birdfolk.
Dwarf- new culture- Sun Dwarf culture. Take the Desert Hierarch culture from MoAR: Complete and reskin it for a culture of surface-dwelling, beardless, hairless Dwarves. Throw in Fire Resistance.
Elves- the elven heritage gifts would work well here. They're already psionic in nature. ;)
Planetouched (Genasi)- automatic shoo-in given Athas' strong elemental connection.
Pterrans- a new Lizardfolk culture?

Kitax?
Next GPG. I wrote a VRC Heritage of insect-people with 4 biomorphs. Worker, Soldier, Drone, Queen. Drones and Queens both face social restrictions to try and maintain control over any reproductively capable Kitax, while workers and soldiers make up the majority of society. (Within the Kitax Regnum Culture, at least!)

You'll get to see them, soon.
I think I need to get myself better versed in A5e. It seems quite a bit... crunchier than I typically like in a TTRPG these days, but maybe that is what a Dark Sun spiritual successor needs
It's definitely got some additional crunch as options, but it mostly plays the same. The only real differences in most games are:

1) Better social/exploration options for most classes.
2) Combat maneuvers increase combat options for martials beyond "I move next to him and swing twice. That's my turn."
3) Journey system adds in more exploration and social prompts and allows priests to pray so hard the group gets magic items or free healing and stuff.
Mostly why I recommend a full new compatible game rather than just a setting book though is:

(a) As mentioned, third party setting books aren't exactly top sellers
(b) I feel like a setting book, especially in 5e these days, is expected to find a place for all 5e PHB player options
(c) A major selling point to Dark Sun (or a Dark Sun-alike) is that the general species are very different from what you'd expect
(d) I also think it would be a struggle to find a place for Aasimar, Dragonborn, or Tieflings, to say nothing of other options such as a classes, archetypes, or spells that don't really fit in

You would have a better standing to adopt from the OGL what you can fit in and leave things out without having to make a list of things from the PHB that are VERBOTTEN
Setting books in general aren't top sellers. Because they're targeted at DMs/GMs/Narrators/Storytellers/Etc. Most people who play a given TTRPG are, well. Players. And the players don't need a setting book full of material a DM needs.

So you're selling to a smaller audience off the rip. THEN you get into the issue that most people homebrew and don't bother buying a setting. WotC sold more 3e core rulebooks than Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting books (even though that book was -baller-)

And that group of "DMs that don't Homebrew Worlds" shrinks even smaller based on the setting style. The number of people who want a generic fantasy world is way bigger than the number of people who want Dark Sun, for example.

But if it's a new system, now you're cutting into a -different- problem. Now you're not selling to the biggest TTRPG audience (5e and 5e adjacent players) you're selling to TTRPG players looking for something new. Which is a smaller audience, still.

And then you're cutting -that- by the ones who homebrew or have a favored system and want a setting that is like Dark Sun and so forth.

It's a niche in the best of cases. It's a tiny tiny niche in the worst.
Warlocks don't fit though. Less arcane magic is a major point.

There's a reason SKs used Templars as they don't defile. They're priests (primal power source).

4E screwed up.
Warlocks would make excellent Templars. Just a less armored up member of the order and more of a "Wicked Vizier" or "Commander" type role.
 

Torches and pitchforks.

How are bard magic and wizard magic in any way related? Bard magic is even directly portrayed as having a different source than Elminster's girlfriend.

Why does the God of Magic provide divine spells?

How do celestial patrons able to hand out arcane spells?

If we can accept 'primal' for druids and archer druids who sometimes have pets, dual wield and have skill points, but not the important part of the druid people care about, why can't there be other actual sources?

Why is every D&D attempt at categorizing a thing so riddled with confusing design choices and yet somehow we can't have proper keywording?

This should be its own thread, but I'm pretty sure I've never created a thread on this board and it would be a shame to break a streak.
Want me to create one?

'Cause I have a categorization of my own...
 

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