D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[Azzy]

I am surprised that a manga/movie has not been mentioned yet in regards to a potential hopepunk influence for Dark Sun.


Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind is more science-fiction but there are similar ideas of hope for humanity creating a life in a post-apocalyptic landscape that is slowly killing them. I would recommend the manga as it goes a bit more into the setting themes with greater complexity and nuance.

Easily one of my favorite anime (and manga, too).

 

[Aldarc]

Easily one of my favorite anime (and manga, too).

I used to re-read the manga once per year. It's one of my favorites. While I do enjoy the movie for its visuals,* I think that Nausicaa works better as a manga. Incidentally, it's much the same as Akira, where it is essentially Volume 1 of the manga and then skip to the end of Volume 6/7 or so for a rushed abridged ending that wasn't fully thought-out yet. But that leaves out some of the best and most interesting material in the middle.

* Incidentally, Hideaki Anno was brought on to help animate the radioactive robot at the end of the movie because Miyazaki needed more animators at the last minute. Hideaki Anno would later go on to create Neon Genesis Evangelion.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Nope!

The editor will send you a list of things they want (Archetypes, Backgrounds, Heritages, Cultures, Feats, Spells, Alternate Class Abilities, Monsters, Etc) and you can pick and choose off that list anything you want to pitch. But that's based on the GPG Patreon poll, so you can keep track of where that is and plan pitches accordingly!

So far the only full class was in GPG 1 with the Artificer, but I'm hoping against hope we'll get another class entry that I can fight, tooth and nail, for!

But as far as the "Theme" it's entirely in the air. I've done two articles about an Airship crew, two Magic Martial Maneuvers articles, the Zevites as a planestriders heritage, a dungeon delving system, the backgrounds and destinies in the Edge of Night article...

And my next article involves Voidrunning space ant people.

it is more I am finishing off something I have been working on for a while and getting it published could be cool I would make whole 60 profit

 

[PvtTommyAtkins]

I think this would be a great way to present Dark Sun. The little experience I've had with it was "hopeless PCs in a hopeless world..." which was just too depressing for me - no thanks. And powerful PCs working for a powerful sorcerer king rooting out rebellion - which while actually fun for a while just isn't my cup of tea.

A hopepunk version would be a great direction to go.

I gotta agree with Mort here.

I'm normally a big fan of the WFRP grimdark and OSR type games, but never really tracked Darksun- I guess I was too young in its heyday. But After reading Steampunkettes take on it I really want to dive into it now.

 

[Remathilis]

Dark Sun 2e never felt like it should have had clerics in the game, elemental servitors or not. Clerics felt like they were mostly shoehorned in there for the sake of having healers.

However, the role system of 4e ironically allowed WotC to make the bold decision to remove all divine casters. Even absent clerics, there were other healers or support classes available: Warlords (which are a great fit for Dark Sun), primal Shamans, psionic Ardents, and even arcane Bards. IMHO, I personally think that the absence of the divine power source made for a better Dark Sun.

Here's is where the two competing visions of Dark Sun clash.

The 4e version of Dark Sun could get rid of the Divine Power Source because it had so many options to replace it with. Martial, Arcane, Psionic and Primal could all step into the void Divine left open. But that clashes with 2e vision of Dark Sun where Arcane should also be limited and costly. You can't have a bard replace a cleric because a bard shouldn't have access to magic in 2e's view. That is a major issue when deciding what classes should feature because the two are at odds. If you compromise, you either get a Dark Sun with very limited options or you open it up to nearly evening. It would be less of an issue if 5e didn't ignore Martial and Psionic based classes that could fill those roles, but 5e has not seen fit to do so.

So you end up with several very different camps of people who think certain classes don't belong. And 5e does not have enough classes to make up for that. I don't know if a Dark Sun where the only options are fighter, barbarian, ranger, rogue, druid and wizard would sell.

 

[PvtTommyAtkins]

Here's is where the two competing visions of Dark Sun clash.

The 4e version of Dark Sun could get rid of the Divine Power Source because it had so many options to replace it with. Martial, Arcane, Psionic and Primal could all step into the void Divine left open. But that clashes with 2e vision of Dark Sun where Arcane should also be limited and costly. You can't have a bard replace a cleric because a bard shouldn't have access to magic in 2e's view. That is a major issue when deciding what classes should feature because the two are at odds. If you compromise, you either get a Dark Sun with very limited options or you open it up to nearly evening. It would be less of an issue if 5e didn't ignore Martial and Psionic based classes that could fill those roles, but 5e has not seen fit to do so.

So you end up with several very different camps of people who think certain classes don't belong. And 5e does not have enough classes to make up for that. I don't know if a Dark Sun where the only options are fighter, barbarian, ranger, rogue, druid and wizard would sell.

I think limited options is a feature rather than a bug in this case. While sure PCs can always be the exception. One thing D&D has had a problem with ever since 3rd ed Eberron is trying to include every heritage and class everywhere. I think proving some left and right limits actually makes a setting more thematic, and if the DM wants to break that, it provides a major story point for them to work with as well.

 

[occam]

Here's is where the two competing visions of Dark Sun clash.

The 4e version of Dark Sun could get rid of the Divine Power Source because it had so many options to replace it with. Martial, Arcane, Psionic and Primal could all step into the void Divine left open. But that clashes with 2e vision of Dark Sun where Arcane should also be limited and costly. You can't have a bard replace a cleric because a bard shouldn't have access to magic in 2e's view. That is a major issue when deciding what classes should feature because the two are at odds. If you compromise, you either get a Dark Sun with very limited options or you open it up to nearly evening. It would be less of an issue if 5e didn't ignore Martial and Psionic based classes that could fill those roles, but 5e has not seen fit to do so.

So you end up with several very different camps of people who think certain classes don't belong.

Part of your premise is off, I think. A preserver in OG Dark Sun was just a normal 2e wizard; it was no more "limited and costly" for a PC to wield arcane magic than in a normal game of 2e D&D. (At least, not mechanically; socially is a different matter.) In fact, arcane magic was even more accessible in Dark Sun, since you could choose to defile and play a wizard on Easy Mode.

The same is essentially true of 4e Dark Sun. If you preserve, you use the normal rules for arcane magic. But if you defile you get the option of an (arguably) easy out for bad rolls, with Daily powers at least.

IOW, Dark Sun has never mechanically limited the use of arcane magic in any edition; it only offers the short cut of turning to the Dark Side.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think limited options is a feature rather than a bug in this case. While sure PCs can always be the exception. One thing D&D has had a problem with ever since 3rd ed Eberron is trying to include every heritage and class everywhere. I think proving some left and right limits actually makes a setting more thematic, and if the DM wants to break that, it provides a major story point for them to work with as well.

Limiting options for setting is definitely good . One issue I had after WOTC took over was a shift around this

 

[Remathilis]

Part of your premise is off, I think. A preserver in OG Dark Sun was just a normal 2e wizard; it was no more "limited and costly" for a PC to wield arcane magic than in a normal game of 2e D&D. (At least, not mechanically; socially is a different matter.) In fact, arcane magic was even more accessible in Dark Sun, since you could choose to defile and play a wizard on Easy Mode.

The same is essentially true of 4e Dark Sun. If you preserve, you use the normal rules for arcane magic. But if you defile you get the option of an (arguably) easy out for bad rolls, with Daily powers at least.

IOW, Dark Sun has never mechanically limited the use of arcane magic in any edition; it only offers the short cut of turning to the Dark Side.

Yes, but part of the issue comes from the idea that no one BUT the wizard should be using Arcane Magic. In particular, the bard was stripped of its magic in 2e and its ability to cast in 4e was a point of contention. Now, 4e got around this by making defiling a mechanic any arcane class can do. But there is still a contingent of people who think sorcerers, warlocks, bards, eldritch knights, arcane tricksters, and other arcane "magic" users don't fit the feel of DS.

 

[Aldarc]

Here's is where the two competing visions of Dark Sun clash.

The 4e version of Dark Sun could get rid of the Divine Power Source because it had so many options to replace it with. Martial, Arcane, Psionic and Primal could all step into the void Divine left open. But that clashes with 2e vision of Dark Sun where Arcane should also be limited and costly. You can't have a bard replace a cleric because a bard shouldn't have access to magic in 2e's view. That is a major issue when deciding what classes should feature because the two are at odds. If you compromise, you either get a Dark Sun with very limited options or you open it up to nearly evening. It would be less of an issue if 5e didn't ignore Martial and Psionic based classes that could fill those roles, but 5e has not seen fit to do so.

So you end up with several very different camps of people who think certain classes don't belong. And 5e does not have enough classes to make up for that. I don't know if a Dark Sun where the only options are fighter, barbarian, ranger, rogue, druid and wizard would sell.

You wouldn't lose much if you took out arcane Bards from DS 4e, since I believe that the Athasian Minstrel was a theme. I don't have my books on hand, and I can't recall how some of these other arcane classes were handled.