D&D (2024) Check Out The New Monster Manual’s Ancient Gold Dragon

Wizards of the Coast has previewed (part of) the stat block for one of its iconic monsters on social media. Take a look!

 

[Stalker0]

I don't think we know that the other age categories have that ability.

It might be very rare knowledge.

Sure...and your at the levels where a DC 30 knowledge check is not out of the question, where you might have access to some of the greatest libraries in the world....where you are friends with some of the esoteric scholars in existance.

Now a DM is fine to say that knowledge is just simply not around, its their world after all. But again we aren't talking about like the True Name of Asmodeus here, its not a state secret that's been stripped from the world mind or Vecna is personally guarding or xyz. To a very high level group of characters....its just the kind of knowledge they deal with all the time.

 

[darjr]

Has the full stat block of the gold dragon been seen before? https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1891-vampires-owlbears-and-more-have-unique-variants-in

DnDBeyond update about new stat blocks.

 

[abirdcall]

Sure...and your at the levels where a DC 30 knowledge check is not out of the question, where you might have access to some of the greatest libraries in the world....where you are friends with some of the esoteric scholars in existance.

Now a DM is fine to say that knowledge is just simply not around, its their world after all. But again we aren't talking about like the True Name of Asmodeus here, its not a state secret that's been stripped from the world mind or Vecna is personally guarding or xyz. To a very high level group of characters....its just the kind of knowledge they deal with all the time.

I think you are at once expecting too much and too little out of level 20 characters.

An ancient dragon is just not that important for a level 20 party. It might be part of their story but at that point not the focal point.

If people want that then they should play lower level.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Okay so now we have seen the entire stat-block what does everyone think? I think now that we have seen Banish is 3-4 times per round with a DC 24 Charisma save the dragon has went from vastly under-powered to probably overpowered and broken. Unless your group features a Bard, a Paladin a Sorcerer and a Warlock that save DC is a 1 in 20 (even then assuming your GM uses 20 is always a save).

Banish is limited to once per round.

 

[Stalker0]

I think you are at once expecting too much and too little out of level 20 characters.

An ancient dragon is just not that important for a level 20 party. It might be part of their story but at that point not the focal point.

If people want that then they should play lower level.

no one is talking about 20th level. Pick lvl 15 (in which a CR24 should be a legit true encounter)... same idea.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

A CR 24 Dragon could be a final boss for a level 20 party.

On it's own it would just be a Moderate encounter so it can be given backup. Like a CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon along with a CR 18 Fire Giant Forge Caller would be a good encounter.

 

[Chaosmancer]

A lot depends were the banished character returns too. If the dragon has an escape proof cell or a pit of certain death in it's lair it can effectively automatically neutralise one character per round (it makes no mention of line of sight). Which means the dragon wins by default in 4 rounds (CR calculations assume a party of four).

A larger party of lower level have a better chance in this situation.

You know, I get that people CAN do things. But having a pit of certain death that the dragon can drop people in is just... poor gamesmanship in my opinion.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You could still have the Alert feat, but I agree its a crazy high Initiative. But all that pales by comparison with Banish.

I don't care if you think it "pales in comparison" I was still making a point. Which was that the idea of the dragon hitting all or most of the party with its breath weapon is not absurd if, even surprised, the Dragon can still reliably go first in the initiative.

Even an upcast Healing Word will undo the damage from the Fire Breath on a passed save.

Sure, a 6th level healing word can heal one member of the party from a successful save against the fire breath. The dragon dealt damage to three people. What do you do for the other two? Oh? Cast an even stronger spell? Okay.

Convenient how you've not run out of any spells at all and were fully rested before fighting this Boss Encounter of a solo monster by itself, so that you can be the most powerful you could possibly be.

Its a moot point now, Banish with a DC 24 CHA save, 3-4 times per round is an Auto-win for the dragon. Without specific prep against Banish the Party should be defeated.

It gets to use it 3-4 times per round. Its virtually unpassable for 2/3rds of character classes and a hard DC for the other 4 classes.

You misread the ability, but you also are ignoring the OTHER legendary actions. Like the 7d6 Guiding Bolt that is going to grant them advantage on their next hit for crit fishing. That is 24.5 average damage per hit at range.

Again, you seem to hyper-fixate on the one thing you can't dismiss by just yelling out a 6th or higher level healing spell, but the Dragon could potentially hit the cleric with the Fire Breath and two Guiding Bolts, dealing a potential 120 damage BEFORE THE CLERIC CAN DO ANYTHING. That is a decent chance of dropping your heal bot.

Its a +67% increase in Hit Points - OF COURSE IT AFFECTS ITS CHALLENGE RATING!

Creatures of the same CR have some pretty big varieties in HP. And, if the whole point of your argument was this dragon was far too weak to take seriously... wouldn't increasing its hp be a good thing?

Under the current (broken) saving throw system that Banish from the gold Dragon is 100% insane.

No it isn't.

So by definition its lost "A FRACTION" of its health.

3/4 is by definition a fraction too.

If you can lose one-fifth of your health as part of your allies losing seventy percent of their health? That's not only not nothing, but it is troubling. Especially when you realize the Dragon's rend attack does about the same damage, as does its legendary attacks, and now you are looking at potentially 6 attacks that can take about 1/5th of your health, after having lost 1/5th of your health. Which in two turns is 7/5ths. And... that's not good for you surviving actually.

 

[occam]

I will say a DM does have to be careful, you never want to banish a character after that characters turn....otherwise they will pop back in before they go and will never lose their turn. Its a time when the DM has to "cheese" knowledge of the initiative order to get the full bang for their buck out of the ability.

The banishment lasts until the start of the dragon's next turn. The target is going to lose their turn whether they come after or before the dragon in initiative order.

 

[occam]

Cleric Heals the Wizard and Bonus Action Healing Word to self...then takes a Guided Bolt for 27 damage.

How does the Cleric do that on a single turn? They can't use two spell slots, so is that a Channel Divinity healing of the Wizard or something?

No need to use Weakening Breath until you are 1 vs 1 with a Fighter...which would be against the Fighter's best save.

Sure, but the dragon wisely banished the Fighter first. However, in the 4-6 rounds you outlined, Weakening Breath would've saved 20-30 points of damage from the Rogue, which is something. And if there were a second damage-dealer in the party (another Rogue, a Dex-based Fighter, a damaging spellcaster, etc.), it would've been even more useful. Depending on party makeup, hitting them with Weakening Breath on the first round to mitigate low-Strength threats could be a good idea.