D&D General Ray Winninger on 5e’s success, product cadence, the OGL, and more.

[bedir than]

I think they petered out before then, didn’t they?

I did a “Tour of Annihilation” because if it. I ran D&D at 9 different game stores in the area, friends did two more. In ten days straight.

D&D Live: The Descent was May 2019 with a three day celebration.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

D&D Live: The Descent was May 2019 with a three day celebration.

And next year was the Pandemic timelines match up well.

 

[Shardstone]

I'm hoping @WinningerR or @SlyFlourish can respond to this, but anyone is welcome ofc.

So, there's a lot of talk about keeping D&D's huge audience in mind for 3rd Party. This is something I've thought about a lot, but I'm wondering if it might not actually be worthwhile for 3PP to do so. Ultimately, when people come to Kickstarter, DrivethruRPG, or any other indie storefront, they are looking for something unique -- outside of WotC's typical dealings. These people are already a sub-population of the greater demographic -- D&D players. This means they already likely have niche tastes. Reflecting this, the Kickstarters I see do the best for D&D are ones that are the most stylized in terms of product.

1. Level Up: A5E, as discussed in the interview, is mechanically complex at character creation.
2. The Crooked Moon, which is a hardcore horror themed
3. Books like Guide to the Yokai Realms or the Guide to the Eldritch Hunt, which create a huge amount of custom mechanics to hit on specific flavors (things like team-moves etc)

I could go on, but essentially, all of these seem to be stylized to a unique experience. Since the biggest demographics right now seem to be 11-13 year old boys and high schoolers, both groups which I imagine don't use Kickstarter themselves or search for 3PP, targeting those groups doesn't seem possible. So when the advice is given to think about the huge demographics, is it saying:

• Try to make something that appeals to as many people as possible?
• Try to make something that appeals to a certain demographic?
• Try to make something that appeals to several, but not all, demographics?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

D&D Live: The Descent was May 2019 with a three day celebration.

WotC deciding to trap all those women in a cave full of mutants was way out of line, though.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I'm hoping @WinningerR or @SlyFlourish can respond to this, but anyone is welcome ofc.

So, there's a lot of talk about keeping D&D's huge audience in mind for 3rd Party. This is something I've thought about a lot, but I'm wondering if it might not actually be worthwhile for 3PP to do so. Ultimately, when people come to Kickstarter, DrivethruRPG, or any other indie storefront, they are looking for something unique -- outside of WotC's typical dealings. These people are already a sub-population of the greater demographic -- D&D players. This means they already likely have niche tastes. Reflecting this, the Kickstarters I see do the best for D&D are ones that are the most stylized in terms of product.

1. Level Up: A5E, as discussed in the interview, is mechanically complex at character creation.
2. The Crooked Moon, which is a hardcore horror themed
3. Books like Guide to the Yokai Realms or the Guide to the Eldritch Hunt, which create a huge amount of custom mechanics to hit on specific flavors (things like team-moves etc)

I could go on, but essentially, all of these seem to be stylized to a unique experience. Since the biggest demographics right now seem to be 11-13 year old boys and high schoolers, both groups which I imagine don't use Kickstarter themselves or search for 3PP, targeting those groups doesn't seem possible. So when the advice is given to think about the huge demographics, is it saying:

• Try to make something that appeals to as many people as possible?
• Try to make something that appeals to a certain demographic?
• Try to make something that appeals to several, but not all, demographics?

I have no idea. I make the sort of products I would want myself and that I think can help GMs run great games. I still run a lot of 5e (although now I'm running four different 5es!) so I still pay attention to that but I also played a lot of Shadowdark so I had that in mind too.

As a RPG hobbiest, I still look at both 5e-based products and more general fantasy RPG products.

So, as a partner in a two-person company focused on making RPG stuff, we don't really have a strategy for this other than making what we dig but we do consider whether a products can work with general fantasy RPGs or is focused on 5e.

I don't know if that answers your question or not.

 

[SlyFlourish]

It's because that's where most people go. You can get things cheaper than Amazon often, but people go to Amazon because it's a central shopping stop. Same as DMs Guild. Many people simply don't look elsewhere.

Most? Citation needed =)

 

[SlyFlourish]

Aside from setting IP, publishing on the DMs guild lets you referrence and quote every published 5E book that's not a tie-in like the Critical Role books... so even if it doesn't clearly use one of the WOTC settings it may be using things not allowed for a DTRPG product.

I don't think it's worth giving up ownership of a product for that.

 

[dave2008]

I don't think it's worth giving up ownership of a product for that.

If you are using someone else's IP, you don't own it to begin with. So you either negotiate a license or use the Guild.

Now if you are talking about a 5e RPG product that doesn't use WotC IP, yep I see no good reason to use the Guild.

I did find it interesting that Ray mentioned they were looking into reducing the Guild cut of products before he left. It felt to me like WotC was just really ignoring the Guild. I would love for them to take another look at it and update the policies (fees, ownership, distribution, etc.)

 

[Shardstone]

If you are using someone else's IP, you don't own it to begin with. So you either negotiate a license or use the Guild.

Now if you are talking about a 5e RPG product that doesn't use WotC IP, yep I see no good reason to use the Guild.

I did find it interesting that Ray mentioned they were looking into reducing the Guild cut of products before he left. It felt to me like WotC was just really ignoring the Guild. I would love for them to take another look at it and update the policies (fees, ownership, distribution, etc.)

I just don't get why they don't invest in the guild. It's literally free money and free product. There are so many products on that guild that should be on D&D Beyond, including expansions to published adventures, a huge amount of setting and character materials, even more monsters, and some legit good campaigns.

For example, the adventure Chains of Asmodeus, or Heroes of Baldur's Gate, would do so, so, so well on D&D Beyond. Both are fantastic at expanding the game and tie directly into BG3 (well, indirectly, but you know).

I'll never comprehend it. I don't know what the problem is.

 

[DEFCON 1]

DMs Guild is like the publishing version of D&D 5E... it's like the baseline foundation for which new people can get their start. It's popular, easy to find, it sets everything up for you, and it lets you play in the exceedingly large Dungeons & Dragons sandbox.

Is it the "best" method for self-publishing? Probably not. But then again, D&D 5E for a lot of people doesn't remain their best method for gaming either. More experienced self-publishers will move on from DMs Guild, just like more experienced gamers might move on from D&D 5E. But I would not expect a new person trying to begin publishing game material to be able to navigate all the ins and out of things like Kickstarter or independent publishing or the OGL/CC without having a veteran hand to guide them through the process, same way I wouldn't expect a new player to jump into something like Champions 3rd edition as their first roleplaying experience without a guiding hand from veteran gamers to introduce them to the whole process.