D&D General Ray Winninger on 5e’s success, product cadence, the OGL, and more.

[UngeheuerLich]

Except 5.5 has no starter set. You have to go straight to the expensive core books.

This will come in time. Seems the timing did not work perfectly the VTT is not ready (once again) and the OGL debacle and the eone purchase and the movie not generating income was not helping at all. Self made problems...

 

[Reynard]

depends on the product, when I create new classes or subclasses, do I use the 2014 logic or the 2024 one? When I create monsters, which one do I use?

There invariably will be one side it leans towards more, even if both 2014 and 2024 can use it

To be fair, most people doing 5E 3PP support are using their own "logic" rather than adhering tightly to WotC's design paradigm. I mean, that's why 3PP content exists at all.

And, as someone stated upthread, it won't matter at all for adventures or settings.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What discussions on this entire forum are necessary? Everything here (pretty much) is curiosity.

I agree! But the way some people comment on certain threads certainly does not come across as curiosity-- it comes off as people genuinely irritated, thrilled, upset, in love, or in pain. And at no point do I ever think that these games or the decisions of the people who make them deserve that much angst.

 

[dave2008]

depends on the product, when I create new classes or subclasses, do I use the 2014 logic or the 2024 one? When I create monsters, which one do I use?

There invariably will be one side it leans towards more, even if both 2014 and 2024 can use it

Sure, but either choice is compatible with either 5e14 or 5e24. So once I make choice, what ever I produced is compatible with whatever 5e game your playing.

 

[AlViking]

Do you evidence of this, or are we talking some kind if received wisdom? Do you have anything more than, "everybody knows this"?

Stating an opinion based on what I know, what I've read and what I've experienced just like you.

 

[DEFCON 1]

yes, in the end that is levels. My point was more that holding on to the existing players is valuable to WotC. They do not want those to be ‘as likely to move to A5e, ToV or SD as 2024’, as you said. They want to make sure that 2024 is much more likely to be what they move to than any of the others.

Eh... yes and no (in my personal opinion.)

Do I think the designers of D&D want to make a game that all fans of D&D and RPGs would like? Sure. But do I also think they are well aware that they CAN'T make a game that all fans of D&D and RPGs would like? Absolutely. They are not stupid just like we are not stupid. They know full well that a percentage of the playerbase will not follow them no matter what they do or what they make. And they have to accept that. And accept it I think they do.

So their question then becomes... what will ultimately serve their game the best? Focus primarily on existing veteran players to make adjustments to their game in the hope against hope that they will stick around for a bunch of time longer before potentially moving on elsewhere... or focus on the newer players (either recent players to 5E, lapsed players of D&D in general, or people who have not yet played D&D at all) and try and bring them into the fold and moving forward such that they become veteran players in the future?

I don't know what the proper ratio is. None of us really do. Even WotC doesn't really know what is best, all they have is their history to lean on. But it appears to me that they always seem to fall on the side of the "new or lapsed player" pool. That to reach the numbers they want over the long term... bringing in the new faces trumps trying to hang on to the old ones. Which to me makes sense-- it's the same theory as to why TV networks always want to cater to the 18-34 demographic rather than the 55+. Yeah, there are plenty of people currently in the 55+ that will watch your program or buy your product in the short term and you can do fine with that for the time being... but they won't be there in the long term. It's only by constantly refreshing your audience will you truly be able to sustain yourself. And that's what WotC is seems to be constantly doing with D&D. If there's a bunch of veteran players who choose to come along as well? So much the better!

 

[dave2008]

So the point of 5.5 was not to change anything? What's the point of replacing the books then?

I didn't say the point was to change nothing, I said the point was to maintain sales / momentum. Basically prevent the typical drop off in sales.

 

[dave2008]

If that were completely true, there wouldn't be separate core books, or 3pp advertising 5.5 versions of existing 5.0 products. But there are.

I am not sure what you mean by completely true.

However, it is true enough that you have seen 3PP doing exactly what I said (on product for both - no revisions needed). It is true enough that I can use LevelUp or TotV or 2024 monsters in my 5e14 as well (and vice versa). It is true enough that I can use 2014, 2024, TotV, LevelUp classes and spells in whatever version of the game I am playing.

The idea that 3PP have to make a revision of the 2014 content to 2024 content is BS. They may chose to say that and do that for various reasons, but you don't have to.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Stating an opinion based on what I know, what I've read and what I've experienced just like you.

Ok, but I would never make a claim that anything is just generally true.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I am not sure what you mean by completely true.

However, it is true enough that you have seen 3PP doing exactly what I said (on product for both - no revisions needed). It is true enough that I can use LevelUp or TotV or 2024 monsters in my 5e14 as well (and vice versa). It is true enough that I can use 2014, 2024, TotV, LevelUp classes and spells in whatever version of the game I am playing.

The idea that 3PP have to make a revision of the 2014 content to 2024 content is BS. They may chose to say that and do that for various reasons, but you don't have to.

I never said anyone has to, really. But several 3pp I know of clearly feel they have to, and that's close enough in the world outside our individual tables.