The D&D 4th edition Rennaissaince: A look into the history of the edition, its flaws and its merits

[eyeheartawk]

Sorry to hear that. But why are you posting here, then? Can you leave us in peace to eat our weird licorice in the corner? No? You HAD TO stop by to tell us how much you hate our licorice? Well, cool, man. Rock on with your bad self.

We get it, you're bitter. That much is evident.

Though, was this a + thread about 4E? Did I miss something?

Pretty sure the original post was about an article discussing the development, release and reception of 4E and spun out from there. This isn't a thread about a 4E homebrew or whatever and somebody drove by and gave their edition warring take. Like, you just decided this (again, non plussed thread) is sacrosanct.

 

[Tigris]

We get it, you're bitter. That much is evident.

Though, was this a + thread about 4E? Did I miss something?

Pretty sure the original post was about an article discussing the development, release and reception of 4E and spun out from there. This isn't a thread about a 4E homebrew or whatever and somebody drove by and gave their edition warring take. Like, you just decided this (again, non plussed thread) is sacrosanct.

Well several people came by and posted some old long disproven/straight out wrong things which felt pretty unneeded and did not add anything to the discussion at all.


Tons of sidetrack on people just needing to say how much of a failure they think 4E was etc.


This is on top of the article having mistakes in it from the get go.


I am sure lot of people didnt even look at the article, just used it as an excuse to tell again how they hate 4E. As if that was new news or interesting for anyone.



At the latest after the 5 page discussion about sales number (where one side just ignored the word of 4 individual people working at WotC...) all chances of any serious discussion died. I at some time wanted to post an answer to "what would you change in 2nd revision of 4E", but there was just no longer a point in answering questions, people wont see it anymore anyway.


Also no we cant just let wrong information about 4E be standing, because then other people will believe it again. This misinformation spread is the reason why so many articles and videos get so much things about 4E factual wrong as this article showed once again.

 

[Zardnaar]

This, or;

Heh I own a Tesla/Prius/iPhone/ I'm a vegan. Or drink fruity beer.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not the one complaining about capitalism in a thread about 4e, while using electricity, clothing, food, vehicles, etc. etc. that was ALMOST CERTAINLY sold by a for-profit company.

Most people who say that for-profit is always bad are flagrant hypocrites. I'm not saying that you, personally, are (I don't know you and frankly, I don't care), but... seriously why, dude? Why is this even a topic here? You didn't think that edition war 2025 was fun enough?

Here the state provided that until they flogged it off.

Capitalism mostly good imho not the USA variety.

Well less bad vs everything else we have tried.

 

[Lord Shark]

I wonder if Morrus would just create a sub forum for 4e fans.

I guarantee if he did, it would be flooded within hours by people who wanted to insist that 4E was bad and wrong and the worst thing to ever happen to D&D.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I have very strong opinions on stockholder capitalism, but here is neither the time nor the place to get into that.

Having said that I would still like a rerelease of 4E although I am really not sure what it should do:

• Try to show more people how good it is?
• Be basically 4E just slightly refined?
• Or be a new D&D version based on 4E?

Because thats for me all kinda different things although 1 and 3 could be combined of course.

If I were to try to kickstart a 4E OSR-style movement, I think a "pure" retro clone would be the best starting point. Something that makes no major changes beyond cleaning up some minor issues. The biggest focus would honestly be on developing a starter adventure that really showcases the strengths of the system and what it brings to the table over the infinite other fantasy RPG options.

Part of me just really wants my old books back. Including my PH3 that had green tape running across half of the pages UNDER the ink.

 

[Belen]

if it was branded D&D tactics it would never reached the same sales numbers. This is just not feasible to have more than 1 edition at the time and non main line products just never sell as much as mainline products. Even the final fantasy MMOs are numbered like main line final fantasy games for this reason.



Why would you, if you dont like the new product and thus dont play it, complain about it? Just play something else. You saw it was not made for you so the logical step is to accept this and play something else. It is not like people came to your house and burn your old D&D books.

And its not that you would like a version of the game made for you even with some slight changes (thats why Essentials did not work).

The point of speaking out is to be heard. The last thing a franchise needs is apathy.

I think anyone who uses the if you do not like it, stop talking and go away is wrong.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have very strong opinions on stockholder capitalism, but here is neither the time nor the place to get into that.


If I were to try to kickstart a 4E OSR-style movement, I think a "pure" retro clone would be the best starting point. Something that makes no major changes beyond cleaning up some minor issues. The biggest focus would honestly be on developing a starter adventure that really showcases the strengths of the system and what it brings to the table over the infinite other fantasy RPG options.

Part of me just really wants my old books back. Including my PH3 that had green tape running across half of the pages UNDER the ink.

Not a 4E fan but would probably cut 10-15 levels off the game.

Big problem with a retro clone is the amount of work required. Virtually no one plays high level anyway any edition. You're creating more work for yourselves.

Paragon path level 8, epic destiny 13-15 imho.

If you take a page from B/X go with 15 levels.

Less powers and feats as well build the difference into the class design. Fireballs a fireball but a striker enhances the damage.

I've been tinkering for years since 2012ish. It's a lot of work.

 

[Belen]

Sorry to hear that.



Sorry to hear that. But why are you posting here, then? Can you leave us in peace to eat our weird licorice in the corner? No? You HAD TO stop by to tell us how much you hate our licorice? Well, cool, man. Rock on with your bad self.

This was a thread discussing 4e and its effect.

I never said you are wrong to like it. I discussed my own thoughts on it.

You have been fairly angry and bitter and I understand why, but saying that I hated the edition in no way invalidates your opinion.

You were arguing with the article at the beginning and that did set a tone for the thread.

 

[Belen]

Some times, the scars linger long after the war is over.



... I have no opinion on this, other than both sides certainly feel that way, and I really hope that some day, people can just discuss it reasonably.

So we can get to the real issue- that 2e was terrible and a real betrayal of 1e! AMIRITE?

Do not diss 2e, Snarf. They had the best bards.