D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

[billd91]

Giving every member of the party an effective +5 (what advantage is roughly worth) on initiative is pretty big no matter how you do it!

I can think of any number of recent combats where the situation would have changed drastically if that had been present.

Advantage on initiative is powerful. That said, this is also in the context of 5e.2024 and a fair number of monsters have a much higher initiative modifier that you might expect by their Dex alone. Some add their proficiency bonus and some seem to have expertise on top of that as well. So I think having advantage on initiative may be powerful, it's not as powerful all the time in the 2024 rules as it would have been in 2014 rules.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

I mean there is a logical contradiction.

If no one else plays that fast then no one else would have already finished a 2-20 campaign already.

If no one else has finished a 2-20 campaign then no one else has experiences to report on playing a 2-20 campaign.

Everyone else is getting different experiences.

Who? Where are these experiences posted?

Yeah, forcing all the baddies to stay on the ground, no swimming or phasing through the floor or walls.

We have had flying enemies, but flying is not the advantage in 2024 that it was in 5E because it is easy to knock flying enemies down (unless they are immune to prone).

 

[Mort]

Advantage on initiative is powerful. That said, this is also in the context of 5e.2024 and a fair number of monsters have a much higher initiative modifier that you might expect by their Dex alone. Some add their proficiency bonus and some seem to have expertise on top of that as well. So I think having advantage on initiative may be powerful, it's not as powerful all the time in the 2024 rules as it would have been in 2014 rules.

Will have to see how that plays out.

That said, if the point of giving the monsters higher initiative was to add some more challenge to fights - having that negated by 1 uncommon magic item (among the whole party), is pretty silly.

 

[Oofta]

Well, the 2014 version made the entire party immune to surprise - which while ridiculous was somewhat niche.

The 2024 version makes the party immune to surprise in the 2024 rules (by negating the disadvantage to initiative, the only effect of 2024 surprise) but provides a very non-niche benefit applicable to pretty much every combat - so it's actually much better than the 2014 version!

Good reminder to be careful to read the new rules. I ran into the same issue with the Sleep spell a while back.

 

[ECMO3]

Except that half the adventures being talked about here aren't written by WotC.

WOTC has not published any 2024 campaigns. To my knowlege the only 2024 adventures published by WOTC are the Uni adventure and Scions of Elemental Evil, both of which are one shots. I have not played the Uni adventure, I have played Scions of Elemental Evil, it was a 4th level one-shot and it was fine. Combat took a long time, other than that not much to report and not long enought to get much substance from.

MCDM Where Evil Lives has the most 2024 elements of any campaign I have played because they use things from the playtest in the adventure.

 

[ECMO3]

After reading the entire thread, I have to agree with this. The fact that the similar results have happened in the OPs other campaigns with the same group and DM is telling that there's a problem and PCs are steamrolling the DM.

There were NOT similar results in high level campaigns with the same DM and players. We have played a lot of high level 5E as a group with mostly the same players and the same DM.

This was the first 2024 campaign, and we will (have already even) learned some things from it, but we played a lot of 5E before this without the same problems to this degree.

Also, the OP keeps bringing up MCDM monsters and how 2024 monsters wouldn't work,

I didn't say they wouldn't work. I bring up MCDM monsters because they are what is in the campaign and it is the only campaign I have played using 2024 rules.

You are correct I have playtested 2024 monsters extensively (and I don't think I claimed to). What I have said though is the MCDM monsters are generally more powerful than their 2014 or 2024 counterparts, I can say that because the Monster Manual is out and I have read it.

 

[ECMO3]

and the players are running roughshod over this DM, not just in this adventure, but in EVERY SINGLE adventure for the past six campaigns.

Where do you get that? That is absolutlely NOT the case.

We have had PCs actually die in more than half of the campaigns we played. We lost 3 PCs permanently in 3 different campaights (no revify or resurection, roll a new character) and had one TPK in Baldur's Gate, Descent Into Avernus.

I am comparing this to 5E, where I have played a lot and did not "run roughshod" to 2024 with the same players and the same DM where we are "running roughshod".

The only thing that is changed is the game system!

You have this completely backwards.

 

[ECMO3]

What rules are you using for Dark Sun?

Substantially modified 2024 rules. We have custom items, no metal items (except as like legendary ancient treasure), one new class, modifications to some of the classes and many of the subclasses, psionics, defiling magic rules .....

 

[ECMO3]

Do they get short and long rests whenever they want?

Not technically, but with the changes to prayer of healing a PC can get the equivalent of a short rest by having the cleric burn a 2nd level slot. Add in the new recharge abilities and it is not an issue.

We get usually one actual short rest per dungeon and 0 is more common than 2 .... but yes we are recharging short rest stuff using other things.

 

[pukunui]

I'm not either. I might leave it in if it's in a published adventure.

I don't even do that. If I see one in an adventure, I swap it out for something else. I often swap out generic +X items from adventures as well. Too boring.

I've been running 5e games since 2014 (or before really since I was using D&D Next as well). There are a ton of magic items that have simply never shown up in any of my campaigns for no particular reason.

However, there are a handful that I actively avoid ever having in my games (without explicitly banning them). The weapon of warning is one. Others include adamantine armor, the decanter of endless water, the periapt of wound closure, any +X shield

Going forward, I am going to be very careful about allowing any of the enspelled magic items in my games.

There are also some magic items where I think I will stick to using the 2014 version rather than the 2024 one - the vicious weapon being one such item.