D&D (2024) Arcane Trickster vs Thief on my first 2024 multiclass

[ECMO3]

So I am planning out the build for my first 2024 character will be a Halfling Rogue with a 1-level Paladin dip and a 2-level Warlock dip:

First level rolls (after background bonuses)
S13,D17,C14,I7,W10,CH17

Sage Background, Magic Initiate (Charisma): Truestrike, Light, Shield (trade out truestrike for friends at level 3, Light for Booming Blade at level 4 and Shield for probably Cause Fear at level 6 if I go AT)

Start as Rogue-1 (expertise in Athletics and Stealth), proficiency in SOH and Persuasion, mastery: dagger, Rapier

Then Paladin - 1 Mastery: Greataxe, Heavy Crossbow initially (may change to Pistol and Musket eventually), Wrathful Smite, Divine Smite

Then Warlock 2 - Truestrike, Green Flame Blade, Hex, Armor of Agathys, Protection from Evil and Good, Agonizing Blast (Truestrike), Agonizing Blast (GFB), Devil's sight

After this it is all Rogue for a while getting Warcaster at Rogue 4 (level 7) and a charisma ASI at Rogue 8 (level 10). Not sure after that.

Looking at my brand new PHB I am debating Arcane Trickster vs Thief. AT gives spell slots that I can use for smites, AOA and Shield, but not a lot of them as a one third caster, especially since I round down. My Wizard spells are all going to be things that don't need intelligence but the sots will fuel Paladin and Warlock spells (and my feat spell once I swap it out).

Thief gives utilize as a bonus action. With the new rules on Hunting Traps, Chains, Ropes and Manacles make this pretty powerful potentially.

My general thoughts are spells are always good... but the thief seems kind of fun and a bit different.

 

[Ancalagon]

this thread may interest you: D&D (2024) - Thief Rogue / True Strike

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

On the multiclass, I don't think it makes sense to spend 3 levels if the main reason is just getting renewable smites, when you could get a new feat with those levels and Rogue would get +1d6 (and a half) of sneak attack every turn without using up their bonus action for it.

Thief by itself looks like great fun if you can get any kind of an assured access to wands (the mundane items are fine but not that impressive in the long run). However... a Thief/caster1 dip works even without requiring that item access (you craft your own bonus action scrolls), it just scales up if you get any (and you can use a wider pool of spellcaster-only items, and can roll to use high-level scrolls), and is IMO just a better Arcane Trickster. AT also happens to become a sad second-stringer if your party ever gets an arcane full caster in it, while Thief/caster1 has their bonus action shenanigans always making them relevant.

Of course, Thief is not a good fit for anything else that uses up those bonus actions, so in those cases Arcane Trickster would be the much more reasonable pick.

 

[ECMO3]

On the multiclass, I don't think it makes sense to spend 3 levels if the main reason is just getting renewable smites, when you could get a new feat with those levels and Rogue would get +1d6 (and a half) of sneak attack every turn without using up their bonus action for it.

The main reason is Agonizing Truestrike and Agonizing Green Flame Blade and that is going to outrun the Rogue quite a bit. Also with the Paladin dip at low levels you can use truestrike-Greataxe and Cleave when enemies are close together and that is going to be more damage than you would get with sneak attack.

Level 3 is the only level this is behind a straight Rogue build in and only then by 1d6 when you can not cleave.

Thief by itself looks like great fun if you can get any kind of an assured access to wands (the mundane items are fine but not that impressive in the long run). However... a Thief/caster1 dip works even without requiring that item access (you craft your own bonus action scrolls), it just scales up if you get any (and you can use a wider pool of spellcaster-only items, and can roll to use high-level scrolls), and is IMO just a better Arcane Trickster. AT also happens to become a sad second-stringer if your party ever gets an arcane full caster in it, while Thief/caster1 has their bonus action shenanigans always making them relevant.

Of course, Thief is not a good fit for anything else that uses up those bonus actions, so in those cases Arcane Trickster would be the much more reasonable pick.

So right now I am level 2 (R1/P1), but I think Arcane Trickster will be the way to go for more slots and at high levels enemy disadvantage on saves (mostly Wrathful Smite).

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

The main reason is Agonizing Truestrike and Agonizing Green Flame Blade

I think that would be worth it if one committed to the bonus scrolls bit of Thief, but as a stand-alone, I was always highly suspicious of putting all your eggs in one Magic action basket. It is one attack that does more IF it hits, while the regular Rogue is attack+Nicking and more likely to land something to trigger their sneak attack.

Also with the Paladin dip at low levels you can use truestrike-Greataxe and Cleave when enemies are close together and that is going to be more damage than you would get with sneak attack.

Fair, I see the use of giving up low-level Rogue damage. I just don't like another class that uses up bonus actions on what is to be mainly a Rogue.

So right now I am level 2 (R1/P1), but I think Arcane Trickster will be the way to go for more slots and at high levels enemy disadvantage on saves (mostly Wrathful Smite).

Definitely AT, yeah.