D&D (2024) Thief Rogues and Items

[fluffybunbunkittens]

In honor of adventuring gear having more concrete rules about their use - and Thief Rogue looking like an absolute hit - let's go through the options! (note: the save DCs to apply are in the 10-15 range, either using a static value or the default 8 + Dex + proficiency formula)

As an attack (target saves to avoid)
Acid (2d6 dmg, 25gp)
Alchemist's Fire (1d4 dmg + burning, 50gp)
Holy Water (2d8 dmg, 25gp)
Net (restrained, 1gp)

This category is a non-starter for Thieves because it requires the Attack action, you cannot cheat your way around that. But, it's not a big loss when it comes to Acid/Fire/Holy, as they cost a lot to do less than any attack would. Then out of nowhere Net comes in like a wrecking ball, instantly becoming a valid option for Dex warriors, and does it while being incredibly cheap! (of course, it's so cheap because it will break instantly, but it's still ranged status effect / action denial)

Utilize action (target saves to avoid)
Ball Bearings (10x10ft knockdown area)
Hunting Trap (move 0)
Oil (+5 fire dmg, make a square flammable)
Spikes (nail a door shut)

With a lot more pushes around now, Thief spending a bonus action to set up a trap with the first two might make sense at times. Oil dousing an area is funny in that it does NOT burn anything that is in the area when it is set on fire, only if they get pushed in or end their turn there. I mention Spikes just for the hope that one time, you get to crowd control half of the enemy goons out of the fight with a bonus action.

Utilize action (you make a skill check to apply)
Chain (Athletics check, restrained, vs grappled/incapacitated/restrained target)
Manacles (Sleight of Hand check, disadv to attacks, vs grappled/incapacitated/restrained target)
Rope (Sleight of Hand check, restrained, vs grappled/incapacitated/restrained target)

Thief needs some teamwork (or a Monk level for themselves) to get the grapple going, but once you have it... These are skill checks vs a static DC. You should be able to beat them in your sleep. Okay, Chain's Athletics isn't going to be that reliable for a Rogue (until lv7 and Reliable Talent at least), but Rope is, funnily enough, just as hard to break as a metal chain (just slightly easier to wiggle out of).

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I know, the true goal for Thieves is to get a wand/rod/staff out and pretend you were kicked out of the wizarding school... and plenty of this stuff is already losing its luster when you only start living your Thief life from lv3 onwards, but... it's cool.

 

[Shardstone]

This is some really cool stuff! I wish the thief could add its sneak attack damage to the Actions here, or maybe the rogue as a whole; it'd really make it feel special then. Maybe a replacement feature for me to homebrew in lieu of weapon mastery.

 

[mellored]

Crafter gives 1/lr ball bearing.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I wish the thief could add its sneak attack damage to the Actions here

Yeah, even if you were someone with an Extra Attack, it's not worth losing your normal attack to do a mere 2d6 acid dmg, let alone for a Rogue (if you want a 20ft attack, just throw a dagger).

Holy Water does get doubled to 4d8 if it's against someone with radiant vulnerability, which is an average of 20dmg. This is more than your average sneak attack hit until lv7 (but less reliable, because you lose Nick).

Net is good enough that I think a Rogue might want to carry one around, just in case, if they cannot trigger their Sneak Attack that round but an enemy is within its 15ft range.

 

[Stormonu]

I'm building a rogue subclass that can use sneak attack on area effects, so things like alchemist's fire and lit oil are useful attacks. Playing around to see what's right for how to apply the sneak over several targets in a way that isn't overpowered but still fun.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Crafter gives 1/lr ball bearing.

They're reusable (if you can spend 10 minutes to collect them after), and cost 1gp anyway.

I was actually giving them the benefit of the doubt, and entertained the notion that if even just one niche subclass like Thief could make use of Crafter, then it could be worth being included as an origin feat. Then their 'create your daily item' selection was so terrible, it's amazing:
Carpenter: Ladder, Torch
Leatherworker: Case, Pouch
Mason: Block and Tackle (means pulley)
Potter: Jug, Lamp
Smith: Ball Bearings, Bucket, Caltrops, Grappling Hook, Iron Pot
Tinker: Bell, Shovel, Tinder Box
Weaver: Basket, Rope, Net, Tent
Woodcarver: Club, Greatclub, Quarterstaff

 

[Charlaquin]

It sounds like you all have seen the adventuring gear section? Is there somewhere I could get a look at it myself?

 

[Xeviat]

This is some really cool stuff! I wish the thief could add its sneak attack damage to the Actions here, or maybe the rogue as a whole; it'd really make it feel special then. Maybe a replacement feature for me to homebrew in lieu of weapon mastery.

I'd actually like if Rogues didn't have weapon mastery and instead used their cunning strike only since it mimics mastery. Barbarians could be the same. Make mastery feel special.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It sounds like you all have seen the adventuring gear section? Is there somewhere I could get a look at it myself?

The gear section is multiple pages, but what I wrote above is basically the gist of the combat-usable items (plus Healer's Kit, which is same old). Most of the gear list is just stuff like 'a bucket holds half a cubic foot of contents', 'you can tie a string into a knot with a Utilize action', like, what.