D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[StitchedSpartan]

By utilizing True Strike, Thief Rogues have very reliable double sneak attack damage each round, though I don’t think it is game breaking by any means. This would require a level dip into wizard so you can use the scroll (Rogue 3/Wizard 1 minimum) but I think most thieves will end up doing this anyways to use Spell Scrolls earlier than level 13.

Bonus Action: True Strike cast via Spell Scroll for sneak attack using Fast Hands

Hold Your Action: Make the trigger a normal True Strike that activates after your turn or something else reliable for another sneak attack

Having an owl from Find Familiar which you would have access to also makes advantage a bit easier to obtain.

My only question is about how crossbow loading interacts in this scenario because I’m not sure an equivalent has existed so easily before. Is it possible to not run into issues with Loading if you are attacking with an Action and Bonus Action?

 

[DrJawaPhD]

The rules are clear - Loading only prevents firing multiple pieces of ammunition from a single Action (Extra Attack being the obvious example), or from a single Bonus Action (is this ever even possible?), or from a single Reaction. You can fire multiple times in a turn if you have more than one Action (e.g. Action Surge or Haste) or can fire with both Action + Bonus Action (e.g. War Cleric), etc.

So yeah if you have a way to shoot on a Bonus Action and then later with your Reaction, nothing in Loading would prevent you. Seems rather expensive to plan for using a scroll every turn, but at some point you'd become rich enough to pull it off I guess.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

The rules are clear - Loading only prevents firing multiple pieces of ammunition from a single Action (Extra Attack being the obvious example), or from a single Bonus Action (is this ever even possible?), or from a single Reaction. You can fire multiple times in a turn if you have more than one Action (e.g. Action Surge or Haste) or can fire with both Action + Bonus Action (e.g. War Cleric), etc.

So yeah if you have a way to shoot on a Bonus Action and then later with your Reaction, nothing in Loading would prevent you. Seems rather expensive to plan for using a scroll every turn, but at some point you'd become rich enough to pull it off I guess.

Cheers, this is what I assumed but it was hard to find a consensus online. Spell Scrolls are a bit cheaper now, though 15gp to scribe a cantrip would still be quite a lot if used in mass

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The rules are clear - Loading only prevents firing multiple pieces of ammunition from a single Action (Extra Attack being the obvious example), or from a single Bonus Action (is this ever even possible?)

Swift quiver?

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Swift quiver?

Good call, yeah that's a way to make two attacks on a Bonus Action. I actually had never even heard of this spell before, you don't see Level 5 Ranger spells in action often (or ever, in my case)

 

[Ancalagon]

While I am mostly enjoying this new edition, I'm finding a lot of these... "almost too good" combos. Considering how there clearly has been some oversights (I'm looking at you, conjure minor elemental!), I can't help but wonder if the designers intended for this to happen?

 

[I'm A Banana]

While I am mostly enjoying this new edition, I'm finding a lot of these... "almost too good" combos. Considering how there clearly has been some oversights (I'm looking at you, conjure minor elemental!), I can't help but wonder if the designers intended for this to happen?

I wouldn't worry much about this one in particular. Rogues are basically meant to get SA damage every turn. It's probably easier in 2024 to get advantage given some of these shenanigans, but even in 2014, if you didn't have SA on your turn via some mechanism, it was an exception.

Multiclassing into Wizard and using True Strike and Crossbows is just a more circuitous route to the same store that's down the street for every player using the Vex property or Cunning Action - Hide or who just...has anyone in the party doing melee.

Though, generally, I think that the designers don't know their own system as well as a million strangers are going to know their system.

 

[Ancalagon]

I wouldn't worry much about this one in particular. Rogues are basically meant to get SA damage every turn. It's probably easier in 2024 to get advantage given some of these shenanigans, but even in 2014, if you didn't have SA on your turn via some mechanism, it was an exception.

Multiclassing into Wizard and using True Strike and Crossbows is just a more circuitous route to the same store that's down the street for every player using the Vex property or Cunning Action - Hide or who just...has anyone in the party doing melee.

Though, generally, I think that the designers don't know their own system as well as a million strangers are going to know their system.

I think you may have missunderstood?

this isn't about getting sneak attack every round (something that should be almost a given given all the ways you can get one). Rather it's about a specific subclass getting TWO sneak attack/round.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think you may have missunderstood?

this isn't about getting sneak attack every round (something that should be almost a given given all the ways you can get one). Rather it's about a specific subclass getting TWO sneak attack/round.

I don't think two SA's/round is beyond what the designers intended. Rogues have always been able to make OA's. A reliable bonus action attack makes it easier, but not beyond the pale.

You're totally right that I also don't understand quite how the proposed interaction works, though. True Strike is an Action, so if you use your Action to Ready, you can't cast True Strike (as far as I can tell)?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

True Strike is an Action, so if you use your Action to Ready, you can't cast True Strike (as far as I can tell)?

As explained in the first post, Thief casts it from a scroll as a bonus action, leaving you free to use your action to Ready.

Now, this does not actually lead to twice the damage, but it is more damage.

I just treat Thief as the default Rogue subclass now, because it's fun and effective, when most of the others are neither.