D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

Whereas I strongly question the value of the experience. If “stress testing” results in a style of play that no one else is emulating, then the results are meaningless. Who cares if you do nothing but march enemies straight into hyper focused combat characters that are way overpowered?

The have to at least be reasonable initial parameters before data can be valuable.

FWIW the DM in question is one of the beta testers for WOTC. Not with anything I have played with him yet, but he was one of the beta testers for Uni the Unicorn right before the 2024 rules were released to the public and is in the process of beta testing Sigil.

I think
 

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FWIW the DM in question is one of the beta testers for WOTC. Not with anything I have played with him yet, but he was one of the beta testers for Uni the Unicorn right before the 2024 rules were released to the public and is in the process of beta testing Sigil.

I think
Do you mean one of the alpha testers? Like he had to sign an NDA and everything? I used to be part of that, but it seems I was quietly dropped around the time of the revision. Anyway, if your DM has signed a playtesting NDA, then he can't legally share any playtest material with you unless you have also signed an NDA.

I did just get an email with some codes for testing out Sigil, though. Not sure if that's because I'm a Master tier DDB subscriber or what.
 

I think Vicious Weapons are the biggest problem actually among our magic items. We have Legendary weapons (a rod of Lordly Might and a Hammer of thunderbolts and they don't seem appreciably better than the Vicous Weapons, arguably worse in teir 4 because the DC on their save or suck is not that high and their damage is lower.

It's handing out vicious weapons enmasse probably on the best weapons. If there was 1 in party vs everyone.....

Looks like you were wrong on the rings.

It's not the rarity that's the problem. Some legendary weapons are basically +3 weapons with a rider. Extra dice when accuracy isn't a problem are a bigger issue than Say 3.5.

Even if you nerf magic weapon s a'la 4E there's always something that rises to the top.

If PCs can easily aquire what they like you're always going to have builds and combos being an issue.
 
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You said that you blasted through six or seven 1-20 level campaigns. I understood that to mean that your high level experiences were pretty similar.

I went through them quickly (as in time) not in terms of difficulty.

What I posted here was differences between those campaigns and this one (i.e. longer combats at low level ..... 1-2 round boss fights in tier 4 .....)

Baed on my experience, at high level 2024 is way more unbalanced than 5E and PCs are way more capable. Some of that is the magic we had access to and guidelins, some of it is the PC abilities and recharge schedule, some of it is probably the first full 2024 campaign for the DM and he lacks experience adjusting. A lot (all?) of it is due to changes in the rules though.
 

I'm still curious how much fun your group had, I think the first time I asked it probably came off as a rhetorical question.
But compared to previous campaigns, how was the fun factor? Did you and the other players enjoy the new options? Was the adjusting a hindrance to your enjoyment?
 

I'm saying that those adventures are provably more normal. Without a big survey you lack the data over what's actually normal.

BG3 effect as well. Or LMoP we coukd probably go through them more.

Lots of magic items aren't really a problem. Easy access to specific ones are.
I get that. They aren't going to be fewer items and make DMs add them. They are going to make a glut of them for those who like a lot and DMs can cut down. You cannot go by published adventures when determining what the expected number of items is.
 

I get that. They aren't going to be fewer items and make DMs add them. They are going to make a glut of them for those who like a lot and DMs can cut down. You cannot go by published adventures when determining what the expected number of items is.

Every DMs different so the published adventures are kind of a universal point of reference.

For all we know most games might hand out more than the adventures.
 

@ECMO3

You gave a breakdown of most encounters ending in 1 turn. Can you elaborate on how this is achieved?

Also, how many rounds were your 2014 combats going?

2014 at very high level probably was about 2-3 rounds for a average combat and 4-8 for a boss fight, but it was lower than that if it was a caster heavy. There were 1 round combats though in 2014, ended with a forcecage or something, but it was not every combat like it is now.

So here are a few of the fights from the last session:

Fight 1: 2 CR10 Force Of Iron Elementals and one Force of Earth Elemental (CR5). The force of Earth was underground and we did not know he was there when the fight started. This happens at the front gate to a tower the Iron guys are gaurding it.

Initiative Order:
Valor Bard/Paladin/Warlock - Attacked one of the Force of Iron using extra attack, truestrike and battla magic did some damage (maybe 100 hps).

Me (Rogue/Warlock/Paladin - Entered the fight invisible from one with shadows dropped a 2nd level Tashas Hideous Laughter on both Elementals we saw (turning visible), DC 21 and they save with disadvantage due to Arcane Ambush. Both failed.

Force of Iron 1 (uninjured) - incapacitated due to THL, can take no actions. Crawls next to the Rogue. Fails save at end of turn

Force of Earth pops up next to me and attacks me and misses (if I knew he was there I would have used a 3rd level slot)

Fighter kills the Force of Earth in 2 attacks with a Vicous Maul, attacks the wounded guy who never even got a turn with 2 more attacks, then action surges and kills him, uses remaining 2 attacks on the other Force of Iron and heavily damages him.

The Wizard and Cleric use cantrips on the remaining Force of Iron. He has failed every save and is still laughing.

Round 2: Bard does the Coup degras.

1st turn in the 2nd round, three enemies got to use 1 action. Key differences from 2014: being able to target 2 enemies with THL and the extreme/increased damage done by the fighter and Valor Bard.

Fight 2: We go through the doors into a room with a lot (I am guessing 40ish) Water Sparks. DM gives them all average initiative using the new MM rules instead of rolling for 40 creatures. They all go on initiative 14 which is 4th.

Bard: Fireballs a bunch of them and then shoots one of them with a pistol.

Me: I started invisible, I used Misty Step (without using a spell slot) and movement to move to an ideal location in the room (stayed invisible after casting Misty Step because of Misty Escape). I cast Fear on many of them (20?), DC 21 with disadvantage because I am invisible. Maybe 1 or 2 made the save, these were the ones that were not fireballed.

Light Cleric moved in and used Channel divinity to damage a bunch of the non-frightened/fireballed, focusing on the area where I did not use Fear, he also cast sanctuary on me (to protect concentration).

The enemies who were Feared ran to the opposite side of the room as per the spell. The remainder swarmed me, the Cleric as well as the Fighter and Bard who were in the door. None of them hit me, I am not sure any of them even get to attack me because of the Sanctuary.

The Wizard casts Fireball right on top of me. I save and take no damage (evasion). That kills most of those remaining that are not frightened.

The Fighter kills some, there might be 2 or 3 left that are near death and not Frightened, but there is 3 PCs going before them. The DM ends combat at this point. There are still about 20 that are frightened and not badly injured but they can't run, can't take actions and don't get any saves against the Fear.

Key 2024 differences in this fight: Relaxed bonus action spell rule let's me cast 2 leveled spells in a turn forcing disadvantage on a spell that is an encounter ender.

Fight 3: 2nd floor of the tower, Essence of tides, Essence of Storms and force of Earth. I don't really remember this fight, but I don't think I even got a turn. This room was mostly a puzzle to activate a teleporter.

Fight 4: Teleport to 3rd floor of the tower using teleporter, which was relatively small we are surprised by a CR19 Force of Blood and a CR12 Sunlight Nexus who were waiting for us.

Bard wins Initiative and I don't remember what he does exactly. I do remember he damaged the Sunlight Nexus but stayed near the teleporter and did moce up into melee.

Force of Blood went next moved next to me and the Bard but did not see me because I was invisible. Does like I'm guessing 80 damage total to the Bard making 2 spear attacks a rend from within attack and boil blood bonus action.

Sunlight Nexus goes next, she makes 2 ranged attacks against the bard and uses a save or suck ability on him. I don't think any of that damaged him, but I could be wrong. Then she uses an ability that heals herslef and puts out a Blinding aura that blinds non-elementals. I am barely in it and the Wizard is in it. Because of the cramped quarters no one else is.

I go next: I move to the side a little bit to exit the blindness while still being in melee Range of the Force of Blood. I cast Dissonant Whispers without a slot. He fails his save (with disadvantage), takes whatever damage and provokes an attack from me, the Bard and the Fighter. The Bard and I both have Warcaster. The Bard hits him with Truestrike using a Vicous Longsword. I hit him with a Vicous dagger and Agonizing Booming Blade and drop 5d6 sneak attack and a 4th level Divine Smite on his head. The fighter hits him with a Vicous Maul and uses Heroic Inspiration to reroll and try to turn it into a crit (does not crit). My Quasit Familiar and uses Scare on the Sunlight Nexus (DC19). She amazingly makes her save.

Fighter goes next, goes through the Blinded area, takes an AOO from the Sunlight Nexus, kills the force of Blood in 2 shots I think and gets a crit so he can move back again. Makes two attacks against the Sunlight Nexus while Blinded. Action Surges and makes 3 more attacks. Misses on one of 7 attacks.

The Cleric and the Wizard clean up what is left of the sunlight nexus.

After the battle, I summoned a new familiar (1 action for a Warlock) so Scare was recharged. The cleric casts Prayer of Healing on the Fighter and Wizard and me so we recharge short rest abilities. I use Musician and Inspiring Leader to give everyone (including my familiar) 23 temp hit points and everyone except me a heroic inspiration. Cleric casts another out of combat healing spell to heal the Bard and some scrapes on the rest of us.

Key changes from 5e: relaxed bonus action spell rule, heroic inspiration every turn for Champions, Steadied Attacks, Prayer of Healing, Warlock Find Familiar, Musician Feat.

So the next fight was the boss fight. At this point the Fighter, Wizard and I are coming off a short rest, everyone is fully healed with 23 temp hit points and the Wizard has something like 100 hit points in his Abjuration shield thing.

Boss Fight:
This boss fight actually lasted 4 rounds, but mostly because of 2 reasons - every time an elemental died she came back to life with 25 hit points and because she used a Lair action that Dazed me, my Familiar and the Cleric on Round 1.

I am not going to go through this in detail because it would take too long, but I will give you the gist. We went up through a trap door in the Celing and got surprised by the boss and friends: the boss CR23 Elemental, a CR 19 force of Blood, CR10 Force of Iron, CR13 Essence of Mist and 20 low level minions.

Basically what happened is she used a Lair action that causes Dazed with a save at the end of every turn and 3 of us failed. The Fighter (who used indomitable) charged her, going around her two bodyguard, attacking her and action surging her. I was invisible and although some of them could see me most of them ignored me the first round, probably because I was Dazed. The Bard got hit hard by a bunch of things and something that basically banished him for a round, the Wizard and Fighter got attacked a bunch, the fighter got damage but made a bunch of saves against the boss and the other bigs. The Wizard concentrated on the minions and I don;t think he got damaged at all. The Cleric threw healing at the fighter. My familiar got killed by AOE, I think I saved and took no damage. I went late in the round. My first turn I cast Tashas Laughter on all 4 big enemies, two of them rolled with disadvantage because of the invisibility, the boss made her save, the other 3 did not. I could not move or take a bonus action. I failed my save to shake dazed the end of my turn. The second round went quicker because her three allies were all incapacitated, and two of them stayed incapacitated. The second round the Fighter nearly cut down the big boss, the Wizard still chipping away at minions, the Bard came back cast something to incapacitate the guy that just shook Tashas and gave me a D12 inspiration. On my turn the boss was actually close enough to throw my viscous dagger at which I did and killed her with the sneak attack and truestrike damage. Then with the d12 I successfully shook dazed. The third round the Wizard cast Power Word Fortify on the Bard, giving him 120 temp points. Cleric killed all the remaining minions and the Fighter attacked and killed one of the incapacitated guys and that is when we realized she came back. Luckily he had an attack left over (probably from a crit) and so he killed her again. Between me and the bard we killed another incapacitated guy and then she came back a 3rd time. Any one of use could one shot her with 25 hit points so it was just a matter of making sure we had someone ready to kill her before her turn every time we killed another baddie. Essentally it took 4 rounds, with careful planning and coordination but the fight was more or less over at the end of round 2. As I don't think any enemy except their minions got an action in round 3 or 4.

Key 2024 differences in boss fight: Heroic Warrior, Indomitable, Mage Slayer legendary-type saves, Tahsas hideous Laughter changes.
 
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I'm still curious how much fun your group had, I think the first time I asked it probably came off as a rhetorical question.
But compared to previous campaigns, how was the fun factor? Did you and the other players enjoy the new options? Was the adjusting a hindrance to your enjoyment?

I love D&D. All the adventures are fun. I would say overall this one was below average for the ones we played, in part because of the end of game lack of challenge, but also the story is not that great. But it still was fun and it was neat to try out the new 2024 PC abilities at all levels.
 

Every DMs different so the published adventures are kind of a universal point of reference.

For all we know most games might hand out more than the adventures.
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what DMs do. WotC has to go high so as to encompass as many different DM types as possible, so their adventures have way more than the baseline number of magic items.
 

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