D&D General Why grognards still matter

[Mercurius]

You missed a trick. After novice it could have been:

Basic
Expert
Companion
Master
Immortal

*Only Master grognards or older will get this reference.

You know, i almost went that route but decided to go more with guild hierarchy.

 

[Mercurius]

I know everyone wants to believe they matter, their takes are useful and important, and their $50 purchase, or not, has some impact. But, sorry, you are not important. YOU and people like you, don’t matter. No matter who YOU are. 50k organized grognards don’t matter for a book selling 1MM copies. Your hot take on a Star Wars forum isn’t gonna change the franchise, even if that take gets hundreds of up votes. not how the world works.

But while your forum posts won’t change the Marvel universe, you can do whatever you want in your DnD home game, you can make all your ideas matter in the only place they do, in the game you’re playing.

Edit, not saying you can’t start a revolution or influence people around you, just saying, you’re not gonna pick the next president. People want the big effect because they’re right on the internet or something. Uh no, but you can help the people around you to better understand things.

I didn't say anything about starting a revolution, nor am I complaining or asking WotC to pay attention to me. I'm just pointing out that grognards of different stripes, as a demographic, represent a lot of purchasing power -- especially once you go beyond the core rulebooks. They matter to WotC's bottom line and thus shouldn't be entirely ignored.

 

[Mercurius]

You're not a grognard unless you complain about how oversensitive and fragile younger players are while also getting all offended and bent out of shape over little things without seeing the cognitive dissonance


*for the record, I'm a master grognard by your list.

This isn't particularly useful for this conversation. I get what you're saying, though, even if it is a bit...grognardian about grognards

 

[Mercurius]

I don't have any problems with your definitions but emotionally I have a hard time thinking of anyone who was playing 3.x or 4E as a grognard. Man, I am old. Sigh....

Yes, I hear you. We Expert and Master grognards know that journeymen and apprentices aren't real grognards, but impostors.

 

[delericho]

I don't think WotC's strategy is really about selling books. They're all about merchandising and licensing, and for that they need brand recognition. So they'd rather much have 100 kids who play exclusively using the free rules online than 1 grognard who buys all the books.

 

[Calithena]

There are grognards around here? I could go for a game of Stalingrad!

 

[Smackpixi]

I didn't say anything about starting a revolution, nor am I complaining or asking WotC to pay attention to me. I'm just pointing out that grognards of different stripes, as a demographic, represent a lot of purchasing power -- especially once you go beyond the core rulebooks. They matter to WotC's bottom line and thus shouldn't be entirely ignored.

yeah, you’re insisting some segment of the market matters more for some essential reason. Nope. What I said, you don’t matter. Grognards that buy every book don’t matter, they buy every book. Grognards that don’t buy any books anymore, don’t matter, they don’t buy books. I suppose those disposable income grognards you talk about matter for their purchases of wizkid and other licensed products. But ultimately, You’re just an old man saying that old men matter and, sorryy, in the TTRPG space, ya don’t. You’re 50 years old and spending a lot of time debating books targeted at kids in their late teens. Think about it. What old forks like us want doesn’t matter. They’re making a product for our kids. You can like if you like, but seriously, get over the idea that grognards matter to anyone making new stuff these days. Stop wanting things to be about you, appreciate all the new stuff being made for othe next gen.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Because we can show other ways to play instead of trying to mimic Critical Role.

My group started out as a 5E group and t the most fun we’ve had is when I had them try AD&D, BX, and other games/genres.

 

[Clint_L]

I have a conspiracy theory that Wizards of the Coast freaked out when OSR got big. All those books targeted more for older players then Wizard’s own. BUT, then I realize that OSR games appeal to younger players as well.

And than I get envious of whatever market data Wizards actually has

OSR books never got big. Not in a sense that would make a difference to WotC. We are talking tiny fractions of D&D sales.

So, I'm a "master grognard," going by the OPs definitions (which I quite like!). But the OP relies on an awful lot of anecdotal assumptions, so it's hard to know what to do with it.

From a marketing point of view, all other things being equal, a younger customer is a lot more valuable than an older one, especially when we are talking decades older. Because they obviously have a lot more purchasing left in front of them. And the OP is very focused on physical books, but I suspect that WotC is more interested in the sales of things like DDB subscriptions, digital books, and licensed video games, and I suspect these skew younger.

On the other hand, the argument that older players might have a lot of value-added is not without merit. I'm probably a best-case scenario customer for WotC. I buy a lot of their books, all in digital form with occasional hard copy as well, I have a master tier subscription to DDB, and I run a club that brings in younger players. I spend a ton of money on this hobby...but only a fraction of it actually goes to WotC. Most of it is other games, miniatures, and so on. And there are a lot of grognards who barely buy anything from WotC because they're good; for years they've had the version of D&D that they love.

I dunno. I think we grognards are somewhat important, and I also think WotC pays heed to us. But I don't think we should overrate our importance. The marketing will continue to prioritize the youth, and the only consolation is that one day it'll be their turn to complain about it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The massive error here is assuming people of the same generation share the same opinions and tastes.

They don't matter because they are not a unified group.