D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Scribe]

Actually the 5e designers have specifically called it "innate" magic. Like a dragon's, or beholder's, ability fly. This is magic that can be dispelled. I don't think this is ever noted in the books, but I could be wrong.

Sure, thats exactly the kind of thing I've mentioned.

Magic is not a four letter word. We can call it anything we want, but if its not blood and sinew, which we know the limits of, even if we squint and suspend belief a bit, then its a gremlin.

Now, I doubt any hearts and minds are going to be shifted on this, and it doesnt matter anyway. People can continue to pine for their Fighter to swing in the direction of a Galleon, and cut it in half, and other people can continue to roll their eyes at the idea.

 

[dave2008]

Then call it a gremlin.

Every class other than Fighter, essentially functions with a power source of gremlin.

Leave Fighter alone, as the single option for people who don't want a gremlin power source.

At what point does someone need a gremlin drive to compete with those you tap into the gremlin source? At some point, not having a gremlin is an issue (or at least should be IMO).

 

[dave2008]

I just got a ping saying my message was quoted in this, did you edit?

Yes, accidently quoted so I removed it. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Scribe]

At what point does someone need a gremlin drive to compete with those you tap into the gremlin source? At some point, not having a gremlin is an issue (or at least should be IMO).

It's only an issue if it's not accounted for, say with Magic Items.

 

[Remathilis]

Whoever said there weren't any rules at all? Now you're inventing a strawman argument. I never--EVER--said that. If you can point to where I did say that, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'm going to take this as a blatant demonstration that you have no argument to make, and thus have to spin up a falsehood in order to respond.

You're the one who has been arguing that Joe Farmer can train to become God, so I think the less you try rhetoric policing, the better.

 

[Remathilis]

There is a middle ground too. A setting can be infused with magic, that doesn't mean everyone has the ability to cast spells and also doesn't mean there can't be limits. It is just the limits might be beyond what we an do here IRL.

That is fine, but I prefer an option to play characters that can compete on extreme natural ability and skill, up to a point, that is much like RL here on earth. For me, level 10 seems like a good point of demarcation. So you get:

• Levels 1-10 mundane abilities that can compete (to some degree) with magical ones
• Levels 11-20 supernatural abilities that can compete (to some degree) with legendary magic
• Levels 21+ epic / immortal supernatural abilities and magic

Imagine for a minute I am a an extremely powerful mythic hero and I enter a thorp of 50 people. Average farmers, bakers, cobblers, good wives, etc. I institute a policy that I will train every one of them to be an adventurer and eventually reach a level where they can do an impossible task. (Cleave a mountain, divert a river, swim up a waterfall, etc). I have the power and resources to train them all and keep them alive until they reach said level. Additionally, they are slavishly devoted and will do everything in their power to accomplish this goal.

How many of those 50 people will be able to accomplish that impossible task? One? Ten? All fifty? Zero?

The answer you provide is essentially my concern with this system. If everyone is able to do impossible things with sufficient time and devotion, then the world should be full of people doing impossible things. Not everyone, but lots of them. If we say not everyone has the spark needed to reach that level, then we have to say why. Is it genetics, magical aptitude, supernatural blessing? Why are some able and other not?

Hercules is mythical because he's the only person in ancient Greece who can do that kind of epic stuff. There are other great heros, but none of them can divert a river. Jason is favored and Odysseus clever, but neither are matching Hercules in power. He's got some great parentage to thank for that.

Which returns me to my original question: how many people in that thorp have the potential to be Hercules?

 

[Joshua Randall]

how many people in that thorp have the potential to be Hercules?

The ones who are controlled by players. The others, nope.

 

[Scribe]

If we say not everyone has the spark needed to reach that level, then we have to say why. Is it genetics, magical aptitude, supernatural blessing? Why are some able and other not?

And that, is the gremlin.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

And I reject having every class be magical.

Then maybe use a different definition of "magic"? This seems like a self-inflicted problem.

"I don't want every class to be magical, so if you like non-magical things, tough luck buddy, you're just going to be screwed" is not a position I consider remotely reasonable, nor one remotely interested in finding a middle-ground with anyone else. It's pure my-way-or-the-highway.

You're the one who has been arguing that Joe Farmer can train to become God, so I think the less you try rhetoric policing, the better.

When did I say that? Please provide the quote. I'll wait.

 

[Remathilis]

The ones who are controlled by players. The others, nope.

Well that's the Meta-game reason for sure. But what's the in-fiction reason?