D&D General Why grognards still matter

[Parmandur]

And yet most players I've played with over the years buy a players handbook use the DM's stuff and maybe dice and a cool dice box or a dice tower. . Inexpensive is subjective and doesn't really have anything to do with what people will spend on the game. Some of us have many thousands of dollars of old stuff new to old. Some look online for information because it's cheaper.

Right, almost nobody I know whi plays D&D spends as much as I do on D&D stuff.. which is well below average for the average American on their hobby.

 

[nevin]

Right, almost nobody I know whi plays D&D spends as much as I do on D&D stuff.. which is well below average for the average American on their hobby.

Right but sales matter to the company based on who buys what. How it compares to other hobbies is meaningless.

 

[Parmandur]

Right but sales matter to the company based on who buys what. How it compares to other hobbies is meaningless.

Sure. And compared to other people who play, my spending a few hundred a year is a lot. Many spend zilch, or like $8 for dice.

 

[VHawkwinter]

Previously, I knew I was no longer WotC's target audience - and haven't really been so for a decade or two - but I guess I extended that to not only the tone and themes of the game, but the economic aspect. In that sense, I am still the target audience, because I probably spend as much on WotC books as a dozen casual younger players.

...

In other words, WotC's target audience may actually be potential grognards in that they want to convert people to lifelong fans, but they still must (or should!) have current lifelong fans in mind, because we still pay the bills.

An interesting thought. Especially if you find yourself hyped for some of the new stuff. I used to be "it" but then they changed what "it" was! (I bought D&D books for the Forgotten Realms content {though D&D wasn't my first TTRPG}) - When I picked up 5e it was because people had convinced me the edition was both worth trying mechanically, and because between the official stuff and DMs guild, most of the FR content I would expect from D&D was finally available. By 2019 before I stopped playing 5e, I was using something like 1700 pages of DMs Guild books, and less than that out of the official books. Eventually concluded that 5e's gameplay was just not my thing.

(And then after I stopped buying it they gave me cause to dislike their business practices).

These days, if I buy a new D&D thing, it's likely a Forgotten Realms thing self-published by Greenwood; Costa; Boyd; or Krashos. Otherwise, like 2008-2016, I'm back to basically just picking up novels (audiobooks now) and good deals on old stuff.

I am a little curious about Lorwyn. I liked Lorwyn in 2007. But I thought Ravnica was a terrible setting book and regretted buying it. So... I certainly won't be preordering Lorwyn. Colour me very cautiously optimistic on that book. But I have no near-future plans to pick up 5.5e, and my 5e books sit in a box at the back of my closet under other boxes. lol

 

[Bedrockgames]

0-LEVEL - Novices (non-grognards): Started playing during the 5E era, 2014 or later. Generally under age 25 - younger Zennials and Alpha.​

BASIC - Apprentice grognards (aka "quasi-grognards"): Started playing during 4E, age 25-35ish, or older Zennials.​

EXPERT - Journeyman grognards: Started playing during 3.x, probably age 35-45ish. Younger millenials.​

COMPANION - Adept grognards: Started playing AD&D 2nd or BECMI, 1990s. Age 40-50ish. Millenials, mostly.​

MASTER - Master grognards: Started playing AD&D 1st edition, or B/X D&D. Age 50-60ish. Gen-X or older.​

IMMORTAL - Grandmaster grognards: Playing with Gygax in the 70s, OD&D, baby. Age 60+. Boomers or older. Of course a true grognard had to have played wargames before D&D even started, but we'll waive this criteria for grandmastery.​

Have thoughts on this groups. The oldest Millenials just hit 44 this year, so I think most Companion Grognards, are probably Gen X still. Millenials were born between 81 and 96

I am in my late forties (born in the mid-70s). I know a lot of people my age who started gaming in the mid-80s on 1E but really cut their teeth on 2E. I think we fall somewhere between Companion and Master in terms of our gaming sensibilities.

 

[Emerikol]

Unlike you, i spend way less on ttrpgs than i did back in late teens/ early 20s. Not enough time to play and not enough space on shelves, so if it won't be used, ain't gonna buy. I do buy some books that i don't use, but it's more to support company since i use their free to download rules for actual play, like Mork Borg for example.

People are different but I'd argue your more outside the norm for your age if you really are an active gamer. I buy vastly more stuff now than I did then because I'm at the height of my earning power. And I play less! 50 year olds will on average outspend 20 year olds on their hobbies. Now, I like you do know of people who become obsessed and may live in a shoebox and own every book they sell. Those people exist but are they the norm. I don't think so.

 

[GrimCo]

People are different but I'd argue your more outside the norm for your age if you really are an active gamer. I buy vastly more stuff now than I did then because I'm at the height of my earning power. And I play less! 50 year olds will on average outspend 20 year olds on their hobbies. Now, I like you do know of people who become obsessed and may live in a shoebox and own every book they sell. Those people exist but are they the norm. I don't think so.

Active gamer, more or less ( we manage 25-35 sessions per year). With limited time to play, i play or run 2 systems. D&D 5e and nWoD ( which i bought some 15 years ago in my early 20s and splurged monthly pay on books). All significant ttrpg purchases any of us in my group made in our early to mid 20s, but i did work over summer in HS and would spend at least one full pay on rpg books. Living with parents with full time job (first student jobs then regular jobs) and ok pay will give you solid amount of disposable cash to spend on stuff you like. Now, in my late 30s (rest of the group is late 30s-early 40s), we play way less and spend way less on ttrpgs.

Yes, 50y olds do spend more, but they also tend to have other hobbies beside ttrpgs. At least the ones i know.

 

[Emerikol]

Yes, 50y olds do spend more, but they also tend to have other hobbies beside ttrpgs. At least the ones i know.

It is hard to prove either way. I think a lot of 50 year olds have drifted away from the game but those still playing spend more than their 25 year old self ON AVERAGE. I met guy like you. I still meet them. I'm not saying there are not exceptions. I think it's an exception though and not the norm. It's hard to prove though so it's just my view based on my experience. Yours may differ of course.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It is hard to prove either way. I think a lot of 50 year olds have drifted away from the game but those still playing spend more than their 25 year old self ON AVERAGE. I met guy like you. I still meet them. I'm not saying there are not exceptions. I think it's an exception though and not the norm. It's hard to prove though so it's just my view based on my experience. Yours may differ of course.

You could also, however, ask how many long time gamers drifted out of the D&D sphere to other games. D&D is the common entry point into the hobby (and with old enough gamers like myself was literally the only game in town when they started) but that doesn't mean they're fastened into it by glue, and if anything I think sometimes there was more potential exposure to other games in the early days when D&D's dominance was huge but not as overwhelming.

 

[Clint_L]

Right, almost nobody I know whi plays D&D spends as much as I do on D&D stuff.. which is well below average for the average American on their hobby.

And I suspect most of that money is not going to WotC. It is hard to spend a lot of money on D&D through buying a few books a year. I manage to do it by basically turning it Warhammer, requiring a small fortune in miniatures and terrain, but WotC sees almost nothing from that. So the underlying premise of the OP is problematic - even assuming that we "grognards" spend more per person than "kids these days" do on D&D...it's not a going to be a huge difference from WotC's perspective, when put up against the much larger size of their cohort.