D&D 5E Mage Hand and Trap Avoidance

[KYRON45]

You don't say.

Can't you tell when people are responding positively to you....even when they say so?

 

[Reynard]

I get that this was a pre-made adventure so it is what it is, but sounds very much like the trap itself wasn't meant to be a danger given that it was telegraphed as it was. And I suppose you could've had the chest be locked and had the attempt to pick the lock risk triggering the trap if you wanted to up the danger levels. But given that examining the corpse/investigating the chest was fun/engaging for the PCs I would say the trap did it's job already and how it's easily bypassed once all the investigative part is concluded is essentially irrelevant.

In this case the trap was actually really dangerous (1st level PCs, 2d10+4 damage no save) so I put the killed goblin there to telegraph it.

Just to reiterate: the interaction with the dead goblin and the presence of the trap was fun, between them trying to figure out what killed the goblin and then how to potentially get into the treasure chest.

I found the "mage hand" solution to be a boring let down. That's all.

If I use traps at all, I almost always use them as encounters, making them complex and dangerous and engaging. This was the first time i have run a low level dungeon with a "classic" trap in literal years, so I kind of forgot how boring they can be. Consider me reminded.

But I still wanted to rant about it. because those kinds of traps are dumb and they deserve it.

 

[KYRON45]

That's why they have frequent starter sets. It does not have to be in every adventure.

So how does a designer account for every eventuality?
I agree with all of you that pre-written adventures are bullocks.
It's always going to be up to the DM to adjust accordingly, even if the adventure is well written.

 

[TiQuinn]

So how does a designer account for every eventuality?
I agree with all of you that pre-written adventures are bullocks.
It's always going to be up to the DM to adjust accordingly, even if the adventure is well written.

Maybe you need to make another thread about that.

 

[KYRON45]

In this case the trap was actually really dangerous (1st level PCs, 2d10+4 damage no save) so I put the killed goblin there to telegraph it.

Just to reiterate: the interaction with the dead goblin and the presence of the trap was fun, between them trying to figure out what killed the goblin and then how to potentially get into the treasure chest.

I found the "mage hand" solution to be a boring let down. That's all.

If I use traps at all, I almost always use them as encounters, making them complex and dangerous and engaging. This was the first time i have run a low level dungeon with a "classic" trap in literal years, so I kind of forgot how boring they can be. Consider me reminded.

But I still wanted to rant about it. because those kinds of traps are dumb and they deserve it.

I agree with everything you have said since the beginning.

 

[KYRON45]

Maybe you need to make another thread about that.

No no....i'm both way too lazy and not that invested in the topic.
I just don't understand all the pitchforks and torches.

 

[TiQuinn]

If I use traps at all, I almost always use them as encounters, making them complex and dangerous and engaging. This was the first time i have run a low level dungeon with a "classic" trap in literal years, so I kind of forgot how boring they can be. Consider me reminded.

I don't know if anyone has done a book of traps for 5e recently, but it feels like something that could use attention. We've got a bunch of monster books that fix perceived issues with 5e monster design, but I haven't really heard of anything that creates some truly unique and engaging trap design across different PC levels.

 

[Sorinth]

In this case the trap was actually really dangerous (1st level PCs, 2d10+4 damage no save) so I put the killed goblin there to telegraph it.

Just to reiterate: the interaction with the dead goblin and the presence of the trap was fun, between them trying to figure out what killed the goblin and then how to potentially get into the treasure chest.

I found the "mage hand" solution to be a boring let down. That's all.

If I use traps at all, I almost always use them as encounters, making them complex and dangerous and engaging. This was the first time i have run a low level dungeon with a "classic" trap in literal years, so I kind of forgot how boring they can be. Consider me reminded.

But I still wanted to rant about it. because those kinds of traps are dumb and they deserve it.

Put a 10lb plate on the lid of the chest if the you don't like mage hand, but that probably just means using a 10ft pole to knock the chest over. And it's not like make a Thieves' Tools check to disarm the trap is by itself any more engaging.

At the end of the day the goal of these type of simple traps is to have a simple "exploration/investigation" scene, which you got. I wouldn't get hung up on the final bit, the encouter as a whole was fun. It's like if the BBEG is finally downed by a cantrip, sure that's boring, but if the rest of the fight was super fun then it doesn't really matter that the final blow was generic because it's the whole that should be looked at.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not sure I follow what that distinction is. Do you have an example?

What I mean is that for me it’s about having a clearly stated goal and approach, not about having any particular level of descriptive detail. A very simple, to-the-point declaration like “I visually inspect the room for signs of a mechanism the pressure plate might trigger” is just as good as a more elaborate, detailed one like “I use my keen elven eyes to scour every inch of the floor, walls, and ceiling, taking notice of every brick and the mortar between for even a dust speck out of place, to determine what devious trap might be set off by the pressure plate being depressed.” In fact, I think the former is kind of preferable because it communicates the information I need to determine the results more clearly and efficiently than the latter does. As long as I understand what you hope to achieve if your action is successful, and what your character is doing to try to bring that about, the description itself is immaterial.

 

[Charlaquin]

After the Big Fight, the PCs needed a long rest and so they locked themselves in a room. They thought the whole dungeon was cleared except the one room marked DANGER and locked from the outside. They forgot about one goblin they had seen lock himself in the pantry and did not know about another.

While they rested, one goblin slipped out of the dungeon, after opening the DANGER door and letting the zombie out (which the PCs had to fight after their rest). The other goblin tried to get to the (now dead by PC) boss' treasure chest -- which was trapped. That is how they found the treasure chest, with a dead goblin twisted by rigor in front of it.

The finding the trap and examining the corpse was all fun and engaging. But the climax of popping off the trap from across the room was boring and, like I said, since mage hand is a cantrip it did not even cost the PCs anything to do it. Boring.

Oh, ok. See, to me finding the trap and examining the corpse would be the main point of the trap. Once they’ve done that, it doesn’t really matter to me how they deal with it, or if doing so costs them anything. Whether they disarm it with thieves’ tools, or spring it from a safe distance with mage hand, or drop the whole chest into a portable hole so they can take it to a trapsmith back in town, it doesn’t really matter, the point is that the existence of the trap and the dead goblin indicating its presence got the players to engage with the dungeon environment. If they picked up on the hint in the description, asked follow up questions to help them make an informed plan of action, and then described something their characters did in response to the situation, I’d say the trap did its job perfectly.

If I were to rewrite that trap and wanted it to matter, I think I would make opening the chest drawer caused the door to the room to slam closed and lock, and the poison gas would be enough to fill the room (rather than just the immediate space of the chest). But then, like I said, I like big complex traps that present REAL danger.

Well at that point I think it’d be more than just a trap, it would be a whole encounter. And these kinds of puzzle encounters can be great, don’t get me wrong, but to me they serve a different purpose than traps. Traps are there to encourage engagement with the environment, puzzle encounters are there as complete self-contained challenges.