D&D (2024) Is Combat Tedious on Purpose?

[payn]

In 5 if I throw a band of dozen CR 2 monsters against a 6th level party I don't expect it to be deadly but it would likely be a challenge. Kick up the numbers by another half dozen and I'd likely be looking at a TPK. If it's a 10th level party I'd likely start using mob rules if I didn't for the 6th level party but once again if I throw a small army of CR 2 enemies at them it's going to be a challenge.

In 3 or 4 I would never bother because they would only hit on a 20 which meant that we just had the escalator or ever increasing numbers that gave the illusion of growth. In 5 if we use a monster that gets advantage like berserkers and don't hand out AC boosting items like candy and those CR 2 monsters are going to hit even higher level PCs in the party about half the time. In 5th I'm more likely use the CR 2 monsters as cannon fodder for the big threat but they are still more than just a speed bump.

Yeap, if you want the numbers treadmill tradition growth and magic item golden showers, Paizo ate that lunch with PF2. D&D went in a new direction.

 

[KYRON45]

But one of their own making.

 

[tetrasodium]

This is a complete misunderstanding of growth in 5E and it’s divorce of what came before.

I think that take you are making assumes that the vision guiding that "growth" is unquestionably good and without flaw to the point where the relevant mechanics are beyond being questioned or criticized.

 

[payn]

I think that take you are making assumes that the vision guiding that "growth" is unquestionably good and without flaw to the point where the relevant mechanics are beyond being questioned or criticized.

It's a preference for sure, but automatically assuming its flawed because it doesnt work like it isnt supposed to isnt fair criticism.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's a preference for sure, but automatically assuming its flawed because it doesnt work like it isnt supposed to isnt fair criticism.

I may have been following the back and forth between sets at the gym here, but seem to recall specific reasons for why the design is flawed being given. Those reasons would been much avoid your "automatically assuming" implication. In fact it is you who seems to be automatically assuming that there is good in the up inflation caused by ac18 for mundane plate despite being plausibly hit by low cr monsters by not addressing the problems and defending them with vague gestures about design goals

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not sure what response you are looking for to this.

 

[KYRON45]

Not sure what response you are looking for to this.

None. That was my response to you.
That's me pondering your "no story" stance.
I find it to be perplexing.
But this isn't the place for that discussion.
If you had a newsletter or blog, i would subscribe.

 

[Micah Sweet]

None. That was my response to you.
That's me pondering your "no story" stance.
I find it to be perplexing.
But this isn't the place for that discussion.
If you had a newsletter or blog, i would subscribe.

There are actually plenty of things in my sandboxes that could be stories. Events that are occurring, situations that will progress whether or not the PCs get involved, etc. Adventure hooks, in other words. But the players decide what to explore and pursue; I don't have a plot in mind for them. When the campaign begins the PCs start somewhere with things to do, and the players decide if they want to check those things out or go off on their own.

 

[KYRON45]

There are actually plenty of things in my sandboxes that could be stories. Events that are occurring, situations that will progress whether or not the PCs get involved, etc. Adventure hooks, in other words. But the players decide what to explore and pursue; I don't have a plot in mind for them. When the campaign begins the PCs start somewhere with things to do, and the players decide if they want to check those things out or go off on their own.

A plot/story by any other name.....

 

[payn]

I may have been following the back and forth between sets at the gym here, but seem to recall specific reasons for why the design is flawed being given. Those reasons would been much avoid your "automatically assuming" implication. In fact it is you who seems to be automatically assuming that there is good in the up inflation caused by ac18 for mundane plate despite being plausibly hit by low cr monsters by not addressing the problems and defending them with vague gestures about design goals.

Again, a device not made to trap mice doesn't need to be defended for not trapping mice. If you want to talk about how HP growth is unsatisfactory as level progression, we can do that, but its also a discussion on taste and not objective fact.