D&D 5E 2024 Monster Manual has better lore than 2014 Monster Manual

[dave2008]

See that one makes sense to me, as was done for Dark Sun in previous editions since everything is different.

I'm guessing it went into some detail on Greek-specific creatures, provided setting-specific differences for intelligent species, and discouraged the use of things outside of those?

It doesn't specifically discourage, but it does say:
"The following pages include descriptions and stat blocks for inhabitants of Theros. The majority are presented in alphabetical order. At the end of this section, you’ll find a selection of mythic monsters, foes designed to pose challenges worthy of legend."

To me that strongly implies what is in this book is it. In addition to the specific statblocks, it has the following sections:

Nyxborn Creatures
Provides description of how these differ from typical creatures and has tables for Origins and Traits (like Magic Resistance).

Classical Monsters
This section states:
"This section explores Theros’s most noteworthy monstrous myths and curiosities unique to this world. If a monster appears differently on Theros than elsewhere in the multiverse, those differences are noted here. Should those differences be significant enough to alter a creature’s statistics, those changes are detailed here, as well. If a monster is from a collection other than the Monster Manual, its source is listed in its description."

It then as detailed sections on:

• Basilisk
• Catoblepas
• Cyclops
• Dragon
• Kraken
• Lamia
• Medusa
• Night Hag
• Sphinx
• Unicorn

Bestiary
This includes:

"The following list categorizes the creatures in this chapter by creature type. Creatures marked with an asterisk appear in the “Mythic Monsters” section later in this chapter."

• Woe strider
• Archon of fallen stars
• Ashen rider
• Winged bull
• Winged lion
• Anvilwrought raptor
• Bronze sable
• Burnished heart
• Colossus of Akros
• Gold-forged sentinel
• Abhorrent overlord
• Eater of hope
• Nightmare shepherd
• Alseid
• Lampad
• Naiad
• Oread
• Satyr reveler
• Satyr thornbearer
• Doomwake giant
• Hundred-handed one
• Akroan hoplite
• Leonin iconoclast
• Meletian hoplite
• Oracle
• Setessan hoplite
• Triton master of waves
• Triton shorestalker
• Amphisbaena
• Aphemia
• Arasta*
• Blood-toll harpy
• Fleecemane lion
• Hippocamp
• Hythonia*
• Ironscale hydra
• Nyx-fleece ram
• Polukranos
• Theran chimera
• Tromokratis*
• Two-headed cerberus
• Typhon
• Underworld cerberus
• Flitterstep eidolon
• Ghostblade eidolon
• Phylaskia
• Returned drifter
• Returned palamnite
• Returned sentry

I think this would be a good model for all setting books to follow

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think putting too much lore in a monster catalogue is dangerous. Because if you publish a setting you wither have to stick to lore or revise it.

I like the addition of habitat. I like the random tables. I like the pictures.

I hate the hobgoblin statblock. I hate the lack of customizing humanoid stat blocks.
I do not like low level humanoid stat blocks. I am missing a low level sneak attacking creature. I miss a CR 1/2 level armored warrior without 35+ hp.

That is it. Some guidelines how to increase CR for level 1/8 to level 1 creatures would be nice.

I still fail ton see how dire wolfs are worth twoce as much as xp as a worg. 1 more AC. 1 more damage. +4 stealth. Less hp. Is that enough to warrant it?

I think animals are overpriced xp wise.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

I think a bit common sense is ok to expect by players. But honest question: Are you not able to use the monster manual in the game right now because of the lack of lore? Do you need to continue to use 2014? Or are you just arguing for a virtual point that is not really relevant for your actual game?

What does need have to do with D&D?
D&D is all about want!

 

[Older Beholder]

I think all of us here have other materials; we didn't start with 5.5, any of us (I think). The point here is the people moving forward who will be starting with 5.5.

When it comes to the issues people have when starting with 5E24, I’d rather hear them from people that started with 5E24.

I’d be interested to see the Venn diagram of people that parcel up their criticisms of the new books as concerned for new players and the new player experience with people that actively gate keep and complain about new players ruining the hobby.

 

[Micah Sweet]

When it comes to the issues people have when starting with 5E24, I’d rather hear them from people that started with 5E24.

I’d be interested to see the Venn diagram of people that parcel up their criticisms of the new books as concerned for new players and the new player experience with people that actively gate keep and complain about new players ruining the hobby.

Sure. Care to scare up such folk? Is there anyone on this forum who started playing D&D with 5.5?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Here's my take:

Lore is mechanics.

Combat stats should not be the whole of a monster's mechanics.

There's no such thing as a setting-neutral creature.

 

[Maxperson]

Many people have noted that the descriptions in the 2024 MM are shorter than the 2014 MM. The general feeling seems to be that less lore = worse lore. But I'm finding the random tables added to most entries are great inspiration -- inspiration for roleplaying monsters and kickstarting adventures. For me, these random tables are better and more impactful than the previous descriptions.

What do you think?

EDIT: I guess the correct name of this book is "The 2025 Monster Manual for the 2024 edition of Dungeons & Dragons"?

I don't really count random tables as lore. The tables might add a lot, but the 5.5e MM still has less lore than 5e.

2e had a lot of lore, and it had the habitat/society section which provided tons of inspiration. That combination makes it my favorite edition for monster lore.

 

[BB Shockwave]

I like 2E's old ecology section - how the creature fits in the world. I don't care about it's origin so much as how it fits into world overall currently.

I could take or leave the random tables. I don't find them particularly inspiring.

Agreed. I wish we were back to lore where a full page was written about all the creatures. I found the lore in the new manual to be ridiculously short for some creatures, and the tables are of little use. Others though have a lot more lore than in 2014. So it is a very mixed bag. Personally, I hope we get more books like Volo's Guide and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes that has larger entries on monster families.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

"We need more lore" just doesn't resonate with me.

First, in general I like design that says "this is how it could be" vs "this is how it is". That's why I prefer the random tables of 2024 MM or settings like the 4E Neverwinter Campaign Setting.

Second, there's 50 years of lore from previous editions that is cheap and available on DMs Guild. If you like it, use it. I do!

Third, books like Volo's, Mordenkainen's, Bigby's, and Fizban's are overflowing with lore...and are part of the current edition of the game.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Third, books like Volo's, Mordenkainen's, Bigby's, and Fizban's are overflowing with lore...and are part of the current edition of the game.

Volo's and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes got most of its lore heavily errata'd and discontinued for sale, though. Part of the disappointment with the reduced amount of lore comes from it being removed and replaced with nothing.