GM fiat - an illustration

In AW specifically there just isn't much room for revelation. The characters are mostly going to places they already know, or kind of know, or know of. Same with mystery, there just isn't much room for it given the nature of the fictional circumstances.


There is some hidden backstory and mystery (or can be), especially around the psychic maelstrom. It just not the sort of fictional situation where that's stuff prominent.


A month in the life of midnight:


She's got a whole death wish thing going on because she's fundamentally morally compromised because she's the assassin for the Doubleshots, a slaver gang. Her girlfriend the skinner has just broken up with her because of the whole assassin thing going too far.

She goes to Kumpftown to see sludge and get high. It's been burnt to the ground by the pyrocult. She goes and finds the pyrocult and the leader assures her that this is a cleansing fire that will wipe away the old and all sin. She likes that idea and joins the cult. (the pyro ideology is in my prep as part of the leaders backstory)

They go and burn another village and watching the flames she decides that actually the world is just screwed. she massacres the pyro cult and wonders the anti-wastes to die. (in my prep there is a ten foot high mutant people eater there)

she gets captured and hung up by the brain eater, he's ready to eat her and he says 'make you scream first. block out bad things in world for moment.' he speaks like the hulk or something.

Midnight is all 'yeah I know that feeling.' which surprises the brain eater and he feels a human connection so he cuts her down.

Midnight has made a friend and so she goes back to the holding, with brain eater in tow, to try and persuade her ex to give her another chance.



There's just fundamentally not a lot of room for backstory revelations.

Can you expand on what you mean by revelation? Because like, there's plenty of space in AW for mystery for both teh GM and players. Like, what is the psychic maelstrom really? How'd it happen? How'd the world break? What is in our ungiven future? What will we make of this world? How will we solve this affliction? Will my gang turn on me?

AW: Burned Over expands on this towards a true like, Ungiven Future where you can really delve into some set of those.

And of course Stonetop has "did we learn more about the world or its history" as a core XP trigger.
 
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Can you expand on what you mean by revelation? Because like, there's plenty of space in AW for mystery for both teh GM and players. Like, what is the psychic maelstrom really? How'd it happen? How'd the world break? What is in our ungiven future? What will we make of this world? How will we solve this affliction? Will my gang turn on me?

AW: Burned Over expands on this towards a true like, Ungiven Future where you can really delve into some set of those.
By revelation I mean the introduction of backstory. So the maelstrom is an area where I would flesh that out but I do mention that in my post.

What will we make of the world and so on is just the result of conflicts. So no backstory involved, just changing positions. E.G. Midnight massacres the pyro cult and makes a friend.

What is in our ungiven future? What will we make of this world? How will we solve this affliction? Will my gang turn on me? I'd consider all these resolved by conflict.
 

Right. Which isn’t how mysteries actually work. And which is no different than a play process that creates the solution.
A game like mine, where the real players must solve real mysteries for real is very different then your Play Around Process game.

Just to point out a way or two:

1.Solving a real mystery for real is hard. Even for an easy mystery. Playing around mechanically in a game is easy.

2.Not everyone can do it. You need to have a mix of intelligence, knowledge, skills and a lot of other real world mental abilities. Not everyone can do it. Plenty of players are clueless. As opposed to the playing around way where anyone can roll some dice and "emerge" something.
 

By revelation I mean the introduction of backstory. So the maelstrom is an area where I would flesh that out but I do mention that in my post.

What will we make of the world and so on is just the result of conflicts. So no backstory involved, just changing positions. E.G. Midnight massacres the pyro cult and makes a friend.

What is in our ungiven future? What will we make of this world? How will we solve this affliction? Will my gang turn on me? I'd consider all these resolved by conflict.

I guess? I mean, a lot of the initial threats are going to follow-on from the world you've defined; the backgrounds and conflicts of various characters; "I wonder" about the world - and while you may be resolving them as conflicts, that doesnt mean that there isn't some degree of like, finding about this apocalyptia. How'd Dremmer get those weird ass guns? Whoa, there's people roaming around in mech-suits? What are psychic powers even? I guess with stuff like Fallout in my mind - I can see how in exploring the world to deal with threats or find enough food to eat or tackle afflictions & etc you could be exploring a degree of uh "backstory." But I haven't played enough AW that I'll take your word for it.

As I noted in edit though, Stonetop has setting exploration as a key component of very solid PBTA play. (I really wonder what Baker would say about it since he'd mentioned back in 2023 that he hand't seen much in the way of an exploration game show up in PBTA space - but unlike his example it still foregrounds relationship conflict both between PCs and with their settlement)
 

A game like mine, where the real players must solve real mysteries for real is very different then your Play Around Process game.

Just to point out a way or two:

1.Solving a real mystery for real is hard. Even for an easy mystery. Playing around mechanically in a game is easy.

2.Not everyone can do it. You need to have a mix of intelligence, knowledge, skills and a lot of other real world mental abilities. Not everyone can do it. Plenty of players are clueless. As opposed to the playing around way where anyone can roll some dice and "emerge" something.

How is your "real mystery" fundamentally different from, say, puzzling out a dungeon? Those call for all the same stuff as your 2.
 

How is your "real mystery" fundamentally different from, say, puzzling out a dungeon? Those call for all the same stuff as your 2.
I'm not really sure what "puzzling out a dungeon " is?

Does your character have a dungeon puzzling solving skill where they roll vs a DC and then the DM tells them stuff?
 



I'm not really sure what "puzzling out a dungeon " is?

Does your character have a dungeon puzzling solving skill where they roll vs a DC and then the DM tells them stuff?

OSR play? Dungeon as Puzzle to solve? Pretty sure I remember @pemerton talking about that in detail earlier in this thread. THere's stuff in the notes/map& that you can find out which allow you to progress in the dungeon; it relies on player skill more then character actions; has finite goals ("get the treasure"), etc.

There was a whole discussion earlier on how not everyone uses notes

Most of this conversation hasn't been terribly interesting so I haven't read every single page of @pemerton grimly fighting on, but just so I'm clear: you're saying that you have definite answers to mysteries that players can objectively suss out through exploring the world, asking the right questions, whatever - but no notes?

Painting miniatures. Crafting miniature areas. Collecting pictures to display on a screen. Selecting music. Creating player hand outs.

Oh my god, ok, if we're expanding beyond the specifics of like "stuff relevant to the content of play" sure, fine. I thought we were at least confining the discussion to the stuff relevant to like "fiat" vs "mystery" vs whatever.
 

OSR play? Dungeon as Puzzle to solve? Pretty sure I remember @pemerton talking about that in detail earlier in this thread. THere's stuff in the notes/map& that you can find out which allow you to progress in the dungeon; it relies on player skill more then character actions; has finite goals ("get the treasure"), etc.
Well, no, not like that then.
Most of this conversation hasn't been terribly interesting so I haven't read every single page of @pemerton grimly fighting on, but just so I'm clear: you're saying that you have definite answers to mysteries that players can objectively suss out through exploring the world, asking the right questions, whatever - but no notes?
Oh, no, I'm a note heavy DM. Though I also have a great memory.
Oh my god, ok, if we're expanding beyond the specifics of like "stuff relevant to the content of play" sure, fine. I thought we were at least confining the discussion to the stuff relevant to like "fiat" vs "mystery" vs whatever.
I count making the crime scene miniature for a murder a part of such prep. I know this goes beyond what many casual DMs are willing to do.
 

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