GM fiat - an illustration

[hawkeyefan]

Depends on what one means by game, no?

Not really. It's Clue. It works exactly the same way. Minsk and Boo or Miss Scarlet, it makes no difference. Little Calimsham or the Billiard Room, the Horn of Blasting or the Wrench. It's all the same.

 

[pemerton]

It is late at night so don't hold me to this specific phrasing, but something that feels more style natural to me like 'prep' or 'prepped material'. Even "gm prepped material".

So to be clear, you're quibbling over the use of "notes" or "pre-authored fiction" in lieu of "prepped material"?

Give me a break!

 

[Bedrockgames]

So to be clear, you're quibbling over the use of "notes" or "pre-authored fiction" in lieu of "prepped material"?

Give me a break!

Like I said, it’s midnight here and operating on next to no sleep so I am cautious in being definitive. But

1 prepped material makes more sense to than gm authored or pre authored

2 I still wouldn’t reduce the whole process to prepped material the way you have been doing with notes

3 this kind of language does matter IMO

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm never going to be down with that. To me the game is everything involved in interacting with it. The rules, the lore, the art, the prep, the other players, all of it.

It kind of seems like the usual lines are being drawn around what game means. Maybe that’s more fundamental to our discussions than first realized.

Or to put it another way - if game is defined as the exclusion of every or most every unique thing about a traditional play experience then that explains why discussion of RPGs as games seems to leave no room for differentiating the things traditional RPGs players typically care about.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm never going to be down with that. To me the game is everything involved in interacting with it. The rules, the lore, the art, the prep, the other players, all of it.

I think with RPGS this is the case. In clue if I am playing professor plum and say that I run recklessly if need be to get to the library before Colonel Mustard, the piece is never going to move any faster (and if it does it is cheating). In an RPG that is what the Gm is for. Maybe the rules don’t cover it but the GM can come up with a mechanic on the fly to emulate the risks and rewards of recklessly running to the library. RPGs can go beyond the system in this way. Technically you obviously could do that in clue, but people at the table would likely object. Though nothing stopping you running clue as an rpg either if you really want to

 

[FrogReaver]

Not really. It's Clue. It works exactly the same way. Minsk and Boo or Miss Scarlet, it makes no difference. Little Calimsham or the Billiard Room, the Horn of Blasting or the Wrench. It's all the same.

Of course it makes a difference. It may not be a difference you care about, but it’s a real difference.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It kind of seems like the usual lines are being drawn around what game means. Maybe that’s more fundamental to our discussions than first realized.

Or to put it another way - if game is defined as the exclusion of every or most every unique thing about a traditional play experience then that explains why discussion of RPGs as games seems to leave no room for differentiating the things traditional RPGs players typically care about.

I think the useful way to look at the game is the things I do as a player.

Yes, that involves the make believe of the game world or the fiction or shared imaginary space or whatever you want to call it... but there is still a clear distinction.

The game is me saying "I want Cullen to raise his shield and be ready for whatever's going to come out of that cave" and the GM responding "Okay, great... make a Defend roll to see how much Hold you have to spend."

The game is what the players and the GM do, which often includes descriptions of what the characters do.

Of course it makes a difference. It may not be a difference you care about, but it’s a real difference.

What's the difference it makes?

 

[pemerton]

What's the difference it makes?

Presumably, that as you play you imagine the Forgotten Realms rather than an Edwardian mansion?

The fact that that doesn't actually have any bearing on the structure of the moves, how they interact with the board state, and how someone wins or loses, seems to be the key point.

 

[Manbearcat]

Presumably, that as you play you imagine the Forgotten Realms rather than an Edwardian mansion?

The fact that that doesn't actually have any bearing on the structure of the moves, how they interact with the board state, and how someone wins or loses, seems to be the key point.

Drizzt Do-Urden rules, Colonel Mustard drools is the key point!

 

[Maxperson]

Yes we do. But that's not all we do.

It isn't, but it could be. Every monster can be reduced to monster #1, #2..., trap #32, race #14 and played generically. It's not all we do, because we choose to put fiction in the game. Clue is has a much lower amount of fiction added, because it's a board game.

Person #3, with weapon #4, in room #5 is not all we do with Clue, because we choose to put a small amount of fiction in it. Heck, we even give the Clue suspects small writeups.

Colonel Mustard

"Well-respected member of the community and decorated war hero, Colonel Mustard is a welcome guest in all circles with an enthralling tale for nearly any occasion.

He loves to recount battles from his time in the service - and his part in them. With all his stories, it almost seems like he has lived the lives of three men.

He's practically a living legend, but how heroic can one person really be?"

That's fiction.