D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Mournblade94]

I would probably very politely express my opinion that they should get over it, and/or find a way to disassociate myself from a person who was so extremely invested in this demonstrably extremely fatal aeroplane that they felt the need to approach people to complain about it being mocked. Like, if they designed it, maybe there's a conversation to be had about that, but they probably agree that it was excessively fatal!

If it was a political, religious or moral concept, that's a little more complex and we can't really discuss that here, but I would generally avoid insulting those unless I found them notably vile.

But this is silly rule in an RPG, that I understand and used for decade, and I'm sorry but that's 100% fair game.

EDIT - Also, let's not pretend THAC0 is in any way necessary with or even really associated with OSR-type games. Almost every single one of them has ditched it. So it's not really associated with a particular style. It's pretending to suggest it is.

People didn't though march into a room exclaiming how bad the stupid clown was. It was usually a reply to someone, an individual Twitter or post USING it as an insult.

 

[KYRON45]

I still play 2nd edition. It's the simplest arithmetic. It's just not hard

What is and isn’t difficult is relative. With different personalities and learning styles…saying something isn’t hard is dismissive. Not only that, some people just don’t like the same things other people like.
It should say something that of all the “sacred cows” D&D held onto…Thac0 wasn’t one.

 

[billd91]

But companies that are not people really shouldn't. There's too much to lose. Disney has lost a lot of the conservative family audience. A demographic who always supported them.

It's never a good business decision to pick a culture war side unless you're product specifically caters to one particular audience.

Or be like Larian and make a product so good that the culture war doesn't matter.

This is a big load of horse manure. In order to “not take sides”, one of those sides demands exclusion and that means… taking that side. And let’s face it, exclusion is not a moral side to take. We never needed segregated lunch counters, buses, or water fountains in the Jim Crow days. We don’t need them now keeping LGBT+ people out of “respectable” society.

 

[Mournblade94]

Nice bone fides. You might be right about popular opinion, I don't really care. I will say, however, that disagreement on this point is perfectly valid, and I won't just roll over because you can cite examples of agreement with your opinion.

Especially when we were on that same usenet

 

[BrokenTwin]

People have plenty of games to acomodate them. I think it is actually worst to come into a game you weren't part of and demand change.

Especially now. No need to stay with it if Demons and Evil Orcs offend you. Go play whatever games cater to your taste. Don't demand others change because your tastes don't match the community you entered into.

That ship has sailed. Dungeons and Dragons has become Legends and Lattes. But since I am playing the game with the person I love most (my daughter and wife) I would love to drop the Latte and go back to the Dungeons and Dragons.

I'm just glad my daughter got into gaming through reading books.

I dunno, it's kind of hard to take someone seriously about feeling insulted by an NPC in an adventure book while they're calling the modern iteration of D&D Legends and Lattes. Nobody stormed the offices of WotC and forced them to change the game, things just change over time. Sometimes change is good, sometimes change is bad, but it is inevitable.

I don't like modern D&D either (abet for presumably different reasons). But I'm fine with one company in an entire marketplace no longer catering to my preferences. I have literally dozens of other options that suit me better in various ways on my bookshelf (physical and digital) right now, and I'm discovering more every day.

 

[Mournblade94]

I remember telling a friend

"The problem isn't Thac0. It's that everything that makes your Thac0 better sometimes goes up, and sometimes goes down, and sometimes it goes up which gives you a number that goes down."

It is like a criticism I heard of 5e on a podcast today, it feels like different parts of the system was designed by different people who didn't talk until the end.

It's absolutely true. All of it. Those of us playing 2nd ed were easily able to roll with it because we knew the esoteric nature. New players that entered with WOTC versions heard it was much worst than it actually was though. If you knew the paradigm you knew where bonuses and penalties applied

 

[Micah Sweet]

It does matter what people say, but I surmise not in the way you think it does.
What people say to us says a lot more about them than it does about us.

I'm getting this from a book called The Four Agreements.
The second of these agreements - and these are agreements which we make with ourselves - is: Don't take anything personally.
It's not easy to do, and I'm by no means an expert at maintaining it, but I find when I do keep that agreement with myself, I have much better days.
The third agreement is: Don't make assumptions. This is where, rather than get offended by the words of others, we ask questions to discern true intent. If the intent seems malicious even after clarification, refer back to the second agreement.

Good advice for everyone to follow, I agree.

 

[Faolyn]

Some games never change, or change so slowly it's nearly un-noticable. When's the last time chess saw a major rules revision? Or Monopoly?

List of chess variants.

TIL there's a Pokemon chess variant.

And, not all gatekeeping is bad.

It usually is, because it's based on the idea that an individual or small group get to decide what's real and what's fake.

 

[mamba]

I don't think this accurately characterizes the views of every person who feels left out or disparaged.

it wasn’t meant to characterize every one of them, a subset however, absolutely

 

[Mournblade94]

Weird, weird.

I honestly don't get my political lessons from entertainment. I read Xmen primarily for the characters. What they stood for was secondary.

I really don't look for messaging at all in comics or games. Even video games.

If it's there and it's not intrusive like BG3 I am fine with it. If it's to overt I generally lose interest.

I'm over informed in life by NYT and WaPo reading. I don't need it on my entertainment (unless it's NYT or WaPo)