D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Micah Sweet]

I started playing at age 10 in 1989. It definitely seems that even in the late ‘80s, the target audience was teens, not college-age students.

Teens and children are different demographics. Can we split the difference and say high school students?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm with @The Firebird on this one. Gatekeeping requires intention or the word is meaningless, or even actively harmful to the undeserving, since the term is nearly always used as a negative.

Sure it’s negative. Doing harm without realising is not a case of “that’s all right then”. It makes it even more important to call it out.

If you say “gatekeeping requires intent to harm” then you are saying it does not exist. You have defined the problem away.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Teens and children are different demographics. Can we split the difference and say high school students?

Peak age for taking up D&D is 12, pre-teen, if only just.

NB “high school” and “college age” depends on what country you are in.

 

[Faolyn]

ADEU, tactical combat, lack of open multiclassing, were all barriers to 4E for me. Was that gatekeeping? I dont think so, but it had the effect!

No, because that is a preference.

Now, if people were saying that you're not a real gamer because you don't like ADEU and tactical combat, or that games that don't use ADEU tactical combat aren't real RPGs--that would be gatekeeping. (And the reverse is also true: if someone says games that use ADEU and tactical combat aren't true role-playing, that's also gatekeeping.)

 

[Faolyn]

Who exactly is interested in imposing their preferences on others here, as opposed to wanting as many possible preferences supported and appreciated as can be accomplished? Why can't we have different games, if it's so hard to accommodate multiple styles in the same one? Is it even as hard as people say it is?

Generally, individual tables do. It's just that these tables are filled with very loud people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure it’s negative. Doing harm without realising is not a case of “that’s all right then”. It makes it even more important to call it out.

If you say “gatekeeping requires intent to harm” then you are saying it does not exist. You have defined the problem away.

No. I have limited it to those with bad intentions, so the term can be used without angering a substantial number of people who do not have bad intentions, but instead have preferences that don't match up with yours and others.

 

[payn]

No, because that is a preference.

Now, if people were saying that you're not a real gamer because you don't like ADEU and tactical combat, or that games that don't use ADEU tactical combat aren't real RPGs--that would be gatekeeping. (And the reverse is also true: if someone says games that use ADEU and tactical combat aren't true role-playing, that's also gatekeeping.)

Yes, thank you for agreeing with me. The difference is in the application and discussion intent.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No. I have limited it to those with bad intentions, so the term can be used without angering a substantial number of people who do not have bad intentions, but instead have preferences that don't match up with yours and others.

No one (almost) believes their intentions are bad.

And for someone who’s intentions are good, then they should be grateful, not angered, to be informed that they are causing harm.

 

[payn]

No one (almost) believes their intentions are bad.

And for someone who’s intentions are good, then they should be grateful, not angered, to be informed that they are causing harm.

Absolutely. If you have an issue with old art because it objectifies women and lacks representation, then the response to such criticism will tell you everything. For example, if the person says, "ok lets drop the cheesecake and add in more ethnically reasonable representation" they have an interest of making the design element work inclusively. If they say, "na, this game isnt for those people" then you know all you need to know about that intent.

 

[mamba]

I believe the statement was made above that students absolutely were the original audience. Are you saying that's incorrect? Evidence?

of course it is incorrect, once it left the wargamer circles, it was mostly highschoolers. Evidence is basically anything about the history of D&D ever

The Basic set said ‘ages 10 and up’ right on the box