WotC Would you buy WotC products produced or enhanced with AI?

[Faolyn]

You shouldn't. I think the example provided was of someone gaining exposure by using AI to tidy up and "professionalize" some otherwise-very-creative scratch notes with the intent of simply putting it out there for people to use, no money involved.

That's not the take I got. But also, while Jfdlsifd's friend may not want to publish it, or may want to publish it for free, you know that's not going to be the case for a lot of people. There are already people who charge for AI works.

Just because it's AI-made doesn't make it slop. Some AI art is IMO very good.

Meh. I'd rather have stick figures drawn by a real person than the best AI art.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

(Also, it's pretty easy to get a fancy cursive font; you don't need AI to write something in cursive.)

Honestly, most fonts you can easily find tend to fail on characters like é, ï, ç or à. It's basically impossible to write in cursive, especially "hasty, badly drawn cursive". I got OK results if writing in English, granted, but that doesn't help me. The time I need to dedicate to prop-making for me has decreased a lot since I got access to AI tools (and they improved in text writing ability, which is rather a recent development).

 

[The Firebird]

So, in your opinion, the environmental impact is justified? I would like to hear why you think this is the case, as we are getting closer and closer to the point of no return for the environment, and environmental protections are being dismantled across the board.

Yes. I don't think we can discuss the environmental question in full without getting into politics. Suffice to say I think the energy used for AI is disproportionately productive relative to some other uses of energy.

Thanks for proving my point, that people with no intellectual property or copyrighted materials at stake, and nothing at all to lose, have no qualms about stealing the work of others that have worked very hard their whole life to make something of their own.

In so many words, to you this is justified, because to you the ends justify the means?

I don't think this is a charitable reading of my post. In particular, it isn't due to the lack of producing anything of my own--I have, and I want openAI to read it.

It's not that the ends justify the means. It's that the means don't appear unethical to me.

 

[Reynard]

Meh. I'd rather have stick figures drawn by a real person than the best AI art.

Unless you were trying to sell it.

The danger is not in the WotC's, but whatever the next Shadowdark is. Those are the people motivated to spend less curating AI images that fit their vision. And if it looks cool and doesn't immediately reveal itself as slop due to number of digits or orphan guitar strings, it will work.

The only real defense is for crowding sites, distributors and other outlets to require disclosure -- and then hope folks follow it.

We are probably less than a year away from the first sole developer AI powered massive RPG kickstarter.

 

[Faolyn]

You shouldn't. The point of having tool empowering more people to put their campaign notes on the Internet by turning them into a more finalized product with AI is to increase the amount of free material being available.



Why would you pay? Right now, there are lots of people offering their scenarios and maps for free on the Internet. They'd continue to do so, especially with a much lower entry bareer.

The entry barrier is already pretty low. You need to be able to sit down and focus long enough to produce a work suitable for publishing--and let's face it, gaming books in general are not necessarily all that great on the editing, layout, and design fronts. The only problem is that people think that they can't or shouldn't publish anything unless it looks to be as good as something WotC puts out. And that's not the case!

There's public domain artwork out there if you don't know how to draw. There's free tutorials on how to design a book so it's legible. Heck, I think I still have a copy of HoL, which was entirely hand-written. If you can't afford to hire an editor, put the book away for a week and then read it out loud to catch mistakes and clumsy writing.

Look, I put out a gaming book (a supplement for Level Up, don't mind me while I plug it--that's not an affiliate link because I don't know how to do them). And I'm a total dummy when it comes to this sort of stuff (and have really, really severe ADHD so being able to focus on the sitting down and writing and drawing is hard), so if I can do it, anyone can.

But to answer your question, it's because even if your friend puts out his stuff for free, a lot of other people will try to charge. And don't forget that the title of this thread is "would you buy WotC products produced or enhanced with AI." So my question still stands--why should I pay for a book produced by actual gaming company (any company, not just WotC) that was written or illustrated by AI? My actual reason to buy a book is so that the creators get at least some of the money from my payment.

 

[Faolyn]

Honestly, most fonts you can easily find tend to fail on characters like é, ï, ç or à. It's basically impossible to write in cursive, especially "hasty, badly drawn cursive". I got OK results if writing in English, granted, but that doesn't help me. The time I need to dedicate to prop-making for me has decreased a lot since I got access to AI tools (and they improved in text writing ability, which is rather a recent development).

Fair enough. Although some sites do let you sort by fonts that have euro-characters.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

But to answer your question, it's because even if your friend puts out his stuff for free, a lot of other people will try to charge. And don't forget that the title of this thread is "would you buy WotC products produced or enhanced with AI." So my question still stands--why should I pay for a book produced by actual gaming company (any company, not just WotC) that was written or illustrated by AI?

Can't answer that for you: I am firmly in the "wouldn't buy from Wotc" camp. Not because I have reservations about AI, but simply because, if the tools become advanced enough that the quality of the output becomes undistinguishable from a man-made product, an RPG product will still be something that I'll want to tweak to suit my need. Since I don't think that WotC will be able to compete in the AI field against either big names subscription services or open source, locally run alternative, I'd be much, much better off asking the AI to do the job myself.

For example, let's imagine Rime of the Frostmaiden was AI-made. I wouldn't pay for it, because if I wanted an environmental adventure with a strong "winter" theme, I'd just ask the AI to write it, and I'd be able to input my own requirements into it, like "make it real bleak, with cannibalism and society collapse in the forefront and not just a few DC 15 Survival check when moving in a blizzard". I'd get a product closer to my need so the added value of having the WotC product, designed to satisfy the needs of the average consumer (if WotC does their job well) would actually be negative compared to tailoring the AI product to my needs.

 

[Faolyn]

Can't answer that for you: I am firmly in the "wouldn't buy from Wotc" camp. Not because I have reservations about AI, but simply because, if the tools become advanced enough that the quality of the output becomes undistinguishable from a man-made product, an RPG product will still be something that I'll want to tweak to suit my need. Since I don't think that WotC will be able to compete in the AI field against either big names subscription services or open source, locally run alternative, I'd be much, much better off asking the AI to do the job myself.

For example, let's imagine Rime of the Frostmaiden was AI-made. I wouldn't pay for it, because if I wanted an environmental adventure with a strong "winter" theme, I'd just ask the AI to write it, and I'd be able to input my own requirements into it, like "make it real bleak, with cannibalism and society collapse in the forefront and not just a few DC 15 Survival check when moving in a blizzard". I'd get a product closer to my need so the added value of having the WotC product, designed to satisfy the needs of the average consumer (if WotC does their job well) would actually be negative compared to tailoring the AI product to my needs.

...And then more writers and artists would get no work, and companies would go out of business.

The other reason to hate AI.

 

[Art Waring]

Yes. I don't think we can discuss the environmental question in full without getting into politics.

I am pretty sure this is just your way of avoiding the subject. I have had plenty of discussions here about the environmental effects without it getting political.

Suffice to say I think the energy used for AI is disproportionately productive relative to some other uses of energy.

This is verging into whataboutism. Since plenty of other things use up energy, then why should it matter what ai uses is what you are saying here, and that is potentially acting in bad faith.

It's not that the ends justify the means. It's that the means don't appear unethical to me.

If you don't see anything unethical going on here, then how about asking how @SlyFlourish feels about having his published work taken without his permission and without any kind of compensation.

You are literally standing there saying "everything is fine" while people right here in this forum/community have been harmed by this. The fact that you are saying this is very disturbing on many levels.

Your "don't appear unethical to me" statement might as well be saying "I have no interest in addressing the fact that fellow forum members have been subjected to unethical data scraping since it doesn't affect me personally."

 

[The Firebird]

I am pretty sure this is just your way of avoiding the subject. I have had plenty of discussions here about the environmental effects without it getting political.

It isn't.

This is verging into whataboutism. Since plenty of other things use up energy, then why should it matter what ai uses is what you are saying here, and that is potentially acting in bad faith.

It's fair that that argument does not solve the problem in itself. Generally speaking, I think most things that use energy are ethical, and I put AI in the same category.

I note, emphatically, that does not imply I think there are no downsides to energy uses, or differences between how ethical different energy sources are, or that there are not substantial risks to the environment as a result of energy consumption and other human activity.

Your "don't appear unethical to me" statement might as well be saying "I have no interest in addressing the fact that fellow forum members have been subjected to unethical data scraping since it doesn't affect me personally."

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't think the web scraping is unethical. I understand it is upsetting. If I believed it was unethical, I would oppose it regardless of whether it affected me personally.