"Promising hints of life on distant planet"

[MarkB]

I also think all of this is a pretty convincing argument that there's no weird physics allowing for FTL or time travel or the like. If such were possible, someone somewhere with some motivation would have showed themselves already. I'd assume that for every infinity of advanced civilizations who hide themselves, there's another infinity happy to show off.

But by the same token, if there's an infinity of pre-FTL civilisations that get visited by such show-offs, there's also an infinity of civilisations that never happen to get noticed.

 

[Reynard]

Time dilation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is exactly how it works. If I take off in a super fast spaceship, my clock slows down compared to a clock on earth. But looked at it from the ships point of view, Earth's clock speeds up. So 1 year on the spaceship could be 100 years on earth.

Yes. Exactly. 19 years pass on the ship. 124 years pass on Earth.

 

[Aeson]

If they have the capacity to get here, they don't need anything from us.

At least close enough to get our broadcasts. Everyone should experience Elvis.

 

[Aeson]

I R dum so forgive me if I sound it.

124 light years away. What we're seeing is from 124 years ago? And all we're seeing is bacteria poo? Even if we travel there in our life time we'll still only see poo, right? Maybe they'll have gained a photosensitive cell in that time? A nubbin of an appendage? Would it be worth it?
Maybe wait a few billion years for there to be something worth seeing?

Edit: After thinking a little more, it has a small red sun. Would there be a need for a photosensitive cell? It would be pretty dark, right? Or dark from our prospective.

 

[Umbran]

If they have the capacity to get here, they don't need anything from us.

This is another possible solution to the Fermi Paradox.

We assume we are intelligent. We guess that, if interstellar travel is possible, we are really just a little way from it, and that that whoever reaches the stars will be very much like we are. Like, in a century or two, we'll have it. So we are smart enough to be interesting to visit.

But what if that's wrong? What if the level of intelligence required to travel the starts is as far beyond our own as ours is beyond that of, say, individual ants?

Then, "Why don't they visit here?" becomes very much like, "Why don't you visit anthills?"

 

[Umbran]

124 light years away. What we're seeing is from 124 years ago?

Yes.

And all we're seeing is bacteria poo? Even if we travel there in our life time we'll still only see poo, right?

Well, no.

Imagine you are standing outside a bedroom door. On the floor, there's a dirty sweatsock. Do you figure that, when you open the door, the only think you'll see is dirty sweatsocks? Or do you expect to see the full panoply of stuff you'd see in, say, a teenage boy's bedroom?

Maybe wait a few billion years for there to be something worth seeing?

No. The presence of this gas in the planet's atmosphere makes folks think of bacteria. But there could be a whole lot of stuff in addition to that bacteria.

Edit: After thinking a little more, it has a small red sun. Would there be a need for a photosensitive cell? It would be pretty dark, right? Or dark from our prospective.

No, dude, that "small red sun" is still burning so bright that we can see it 124 light hears away. That star is a little smaller, a little redder, than Earth's, but it is still a star, still an ever-exploding fusion bomb.

 

[Reynard]

This is another possible solution to the Fermi Paradox.

We assume we are intelligent. We guess that, if interstellar travel is possible, we are really just a little way from it, and that that whoever reaches the stars will be very much like we are. Like, in a century or two, we'll have it. So we are smart enough to be interesting to visit.

But what if that's wrong? What if the level of intelligence required to travel the starts is as far beyond our own as ours is beyond that of, say, individual ants?

Then, "Why don't they visit here?" becomes very much like, "Why don't you visit anthills?"

I sometimes think about the differences between us and chimpanzees as a way of trying to understand what a truly superior intellect might be (as opposed to a truly alien intellect, which would be more like the differences between us and octopi). We share much in common with chimps, and we can interact with them, and even teach them to communicate with us to a degree. But we can never teach a chimp to do calculus. it is literally beyond them. They are physiologically incapable of learning calculus, of building internal combustion engines or nuclear reactors.

So it may be with a more intelligent species. We may simply not be capable of thinking our way through the problem of interstellar travel in the same way that a chimpanzee cannot think its way through the problem of air travel.

 

[payn]

I sometimes think about the differences between us and chimpanzees as a way of trying to understand what a truly superior intellect might be 9as opposed to a truly alien intellect, which would be more like the differences between us and octopi). We share much in common with chimps, and we can interact with them, and even teach them to communicate with us to a degree. But we can never teach a chimp to do calculus. it is literally beyond them. They are physiologically incapable of learning calculus, of building internal combustion engines or nuclear reactors.

So it may be with a more intelligent species. We may simply not be capable of thinking our way through the problem of interstellar travel in the same way that a chimpanzee cannot think its way through the problem of air travel.

 

[Reynard]

I don't actually think we will make "great" pets. We'll be more like ferrets or nasty cats.

 

[Staffan]

No. That is not how it works. that is opposite of how it works, in fact.

Queen even made a song about it.