GOD RULES: Player's Guide (5e) Kickstarter Pre-Launch Page

[dave2008]

So an Intermediate God could never fight a Greater God in your system?

That is only true if your are talking about 1v1 and all other things being equal. The intent in my system is a group of 3-5 deity PCs working together and a creature a rank higher than you is considered a solo threat. So how do 3-5 PCs take on a monster that is 10x more powerful than any one of them? I plan to have a few methods:

1. Equipment. You can get equipment that is higher rank than you. This takes away some of the advantages of your opponent being a higher rank.
2. Formations. Formations are special group tactics that allow you to punch above your rank.
3. Arrays. Arrays are mystical devices / contraptions / traps that hinder your opponent in some way. They make them punch below their rank basically.
4. Rituals. Temporary buffs for you and possibly nerfs for your opponent.
5. Fortuitous Encounters. Something like supernatural gifts and epic boons, but for immortals. This is the one I am least sure about.

But doesn't that mean you alienate the other ranks and previous monsters from your own Immortals play and thus require infinitely more new monsters to actually 'flesh out' each rank?

It would definitely require a lot of new monsters. However, I do plan to have lower rank monster minions and swarms. Like a flight of ancient dragons (swarm rules), might be considered a rank 2 threat or something (I haven't actually looked at the numbers).

Officially Epic characters have a history of battling Demon Lords and even Demon Princes. Do you not like that idea?

I absolutely like the idea of PCs fighting Demon Lords and Princes, but not mortal PCs. The demon princes in BECMI were Eternal ranked immortals. My plan is similar. Demon lords would be ranks 1-2, princes 3, and the demon monarch rank 4.

My setting is all about deity roleplay, the mortal realm is mostly left behind.

 

[Upper_Krust]

We see him use a few super-tier spells in the series, but I'd wager that the strongest is Iä Shub-Niggurath:

Cool.

The effect of this spell is two-fold. Upon completion of the spell, it instantly kills seventy thousand people (and their animals), and it's stated that their deaths are an "offering" that Shub-Niggurath responds to by sending her young. Specifically, five of the "Dark Young" monster (which Ainz states is the most ever summoned with a single casting of the spell, but also notes that killing that many people should have resulted in more being summoned, suggesting that the spell is capped at summoning five. My guess would be that one Dark Young is summoned per ten thousand people slain.)

As a note, the "What If" novel confirms that this spell can also kill the undead.

The Dark Young themselves are stated to be "over level 90" and to have little in the way of supernatural or magical powers, but their base stats are higher than would otherwise be expected for a monster of their level. So if we presume something like level 92, then if we divide that by 2.5 (for D&D 3.X, as per my previous post), that'd make them something like level 36 or 37 (I know that level and Challenge Rating aren't the same, but presumably this means that one of the Dark Young would be an appropriate challenge for a party of characters that are all level 36-37).

I would say Challenge Rating is 2/3rds Level. So Level 36 = CR 24 = a Demigod (Very powerful).

With Ainz effectively a Lesser Deity summoning 5 Demigods is unbalanced - though it does require a sacrifice of 10,000 souls per Dark Young.

Typically summoning 5 Demigods would be a Level 14-15 spell.

But maybe a Level 13 spell could summon 2 with the pre-req component of the 10,000 Souls and each doubling of the number of souls gets you +1 Dark Young...?

Interesting Spell - I might be able to sneak something similar into the book. I have my 100 Epic Spells (+1 build your own example) but I am sure there are one or two I am not satisfied with.

I think you overlooked my note about the 3.X conversion, which would put Lugpusregina at level 23-24 in 3.X D&D.

Yes the quote text is tiny, I must have missed that.,,just adjusted my text size to compensate. Been having problems since I got this new monitor a few weeks ago.

EDIT: In hindsight, I didn't make it clear that Overlord uses its own level system, where characters can be anywhere from level 1 to level 100. Lupusregina is level 59 under their system, which using the 2.5 divisor I mentioned above, would make her level 23 or 24 in 3.X D&D.

Now I understand. So Level 100 Overlord = Level 40 (in D&D Levels).

I'm curious how epic boons would equate to racial levels in your system (of course, the entire idea of "racial levels" has always been awkward in D&D; I suspect the closest equivalent was probably in Basic D&D with its races-as-classes presentation for demihumans. The monster levels in something like 3.0's Savage Species are probably a closer translation to what's in Overlord, but those had their own problems).

I just meant if Overlord had two Leveling methods the main one one could be allocated to Divine Ranks and lesser one to Epic Boons.

Don't get me started.

Haven't had time to get into it yet - but looks interesting.

 

[Upper_Krust]

That is only true if your are talking about 1v1 and all other things being equal. The intent in my system is a group of 3-5 deity PCs working together and a creature a rank higher than you is considered a solo threat. So how do 3-5 PCs take on a monster that is 10x more powerful than any one of them? I plan to have a few methods:

1. Equipment. You can get equipment that is higher rank than you. This takes away some of the advantages of your opponent being a higher rank.
2. Formations. Formations are special group tactics that allow you to punch above your rank.
3. Arrays. Arrays are mystical devices / contraptions / traps that hinder your opponent in some way. They make them punch below their rank basically.
4. Rituals. Temporary buffs for you and possibly nerfs for your opponent.
5. Fortuitous Encounters. Something like supernatural gifts and epic boons, but for immortals. This is the one I am least sure about.

Those all sound like really cool ideas, although I still think isolating ranks is just giving you (the designer) and the GM some combination of more work/less options.

It would definitely require a lot of new monsters.

You are giving yourself exponentially more work with this approach...

However, I do plan to have lower rank monster minions and swarms. Like a flight of ancient dragons (swarm rules), might be considered a rank 2 threat or something (I haven't actually looked at the numbers).

...but you do love designing monsters. :+)

I absolutely like the idea of PCs fighting Demon Lords and Princes, but not mortal PCs. The demon princes in BECMI were Eternal ranked immortals. My plan is similar. Demon lords would be ranks 1-2, princes 3, and the demon monarch rank 4.

D&D is largely built on the idea that epic characters can Challenge even a Demon Prince.

Personally I think that's a stretch but if you have a Party of Level 20 characters you can battle Hero-deities, Quasi-deities and even Demigods (though likely not in their Divine Realm/Home Plane) with my rules.

My version of Orcus (in the book) is CR 28 and on his own not in his Divine Realm is equal to 10 Epic Tier PCs. On his home plane with his Mythic Form - he is worth more like 20 Epic PCs. Added to which his listed "Throne Room Encounter" is:

1 Single PC faces Orcus + 1d6 Wraiths
2 PCs face Orcus + 1d6 Wraiths + a Lich
3 PCs face Orcus + 1d6 Wraiths + a Lich + a Balor
4 PCs face Orcus + 1d6 Wraiths + a Lich + a Balor + a Nightwalker
5 PCs face Orcus + 1d6 Wraiths + a Lich + a Balor + a Nightwalker + a Molydeus
etc.

The Lich, Balor, Nightwalker and Molydeus would each be worth (on paper) 3 Epic PCs themselves.

Also one of his Lair Actions is 1d3 Wraith reinforcements just come through the walls.

So realistically to defeat Orcus on his home plane you would need (bare minimum) a party of Quasi-deities, more likely probably Demigods.

My setting is all about deity roleplay, the mortal realm is mostly left behind.

Seems like you are leaning into a D&D Immortals Set homage.

 

[dave2008]

Seems like you are leaning into a D&D Immortals Set homage.

Yes, and it is all very theoretical. I am not likely to ever finish my ideas at this point - that is why we need your book so much!

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

On a slightly different subject, what Divine Rank would a Immortal/God party have to be in order to defeat the Xeelee and the Photino Birds from the Xeelee Sequence?

 

[Upper_Krust]

On a slightly different subject, what Divine Rank would a Immortal/God party have to be in order to defeat the Xeelee and the Photino Birds from the Xeelee Sequence?

I think I am right in saying they would be 3.5 to 4 on the Kardashev Scale.

But the disparity is always distinguishing between the race itself and technology.

I think my preliminary thoughts are the CR of 'soldier's would double over Kardashev scales 0.7 - 5.

0.7, Modern Marine = CR 3
1, Cyborg = CR 6
2, Space Marines = CR 12
3, Time Trooper = CR 24
4, Super Commando = CR 48
5, Q(uantum) Marine = CR 96

That's an over simplification. But likely not far off what I'll end up with.

I was planning to add 32 pages of Soldiers/Tech to the spin-off document: God Forged: Artifacts...which will just be chapter 7 of God Rules players guide (for those that just want the artefact rules, not the GOD rules). But I dislike the idea of making people pay twice. So I will think of somewhere else to add that extra material.

As regards the Xeelee, once tech and life combine probably more like CR 60-70 ish.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Was a bit pushed for time earlier. One of the problems with the Kardashev scale is that a lot of 'humans' in sci-fi are still just human. So you have to make a separate case for those kitted out in cutting edge tech/bio-upgrades, weapons and armour.

Eventually these things all seem to merge into one, with cosmic beings eventually not requiring spaceships or tech and all their power is just 'within them'.

I mean even the Xeelee have spaceships. I don't think that necessarily puts them below characters/races that don't need spaceships but its an interesting measuring stick nonetheless...hypothetically how does an individual Xeelee compares to say Galactus (who I suppose has his own Ship) - I'll have the 'World Devourer' in the book if the Stretch Goals are met. I think the Xeelee are notably more powerful - but I am no expert on them.

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

Afaik, the Xeelee have what is for all intents and purposes full atomic control of all baryonic/non-dark matter in the universe they're in, and can violate the laws of physics at will. The average Xeelee, backed up with a Nightfighter and a good-sized amount of Construction Material, would be easily able to control/destroy a roughly Local Galactic Group-sized area of space imo. At least according to the 3.5e book, I'd say that the Xeelee would scale just under Demiurge-level as a species, since they can travel between Demiurges/Universes with extreme effort.

As another question, what Divine Rank would a 3.5e IH Demiurge be in the 5e rules?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Afaik, the Xeelee have what is for all intents and purposes full atomic control of all baryonic/non-dark matter in the universe they're in, and can violate the laws of physics at will. The average Xeelee, backed up with a Nightfighter and a good-sized amount of Construction Material, would be easily able to control/destroy a roughly Local Galactic Group-sized area of space imo. At least according to the 3.5e book, I'd say that the Xeelee would scale just under Demiurge-level as a species, since they can travel between Demiurges/Universes with extreme effort.

You are probably talking DR 18/CR 84-ish to casually destroy a Galaxy (in my rules), though I am sure it could be done at lower power levels with prep/Epic Spells/Items etc.

As another question, what Divine Rank would a 3.5e IH Demiurge be in the 5e rules?

A Demiurge would be CR 88-96 (Divine Ranks 19-21). With CR 100 being a full 'Monad'. Technically DR 19-22 (Eternal Tier) are sentient universes but with some universes being bigger than others thus the smaller ones might be considered incomplete.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Technically DR 19-22 (Eternal Tier) are sentient universes

sentient HUH??????? is the highest DR just all of existence granted sentience??????