City State of the Invincible Overlord, what even is it?

[cbwjm]

I've never heard of this until the recent announcement (I know very little about Judge's Guild) and since this is going to be re-released, I'm curious what people who have used it, read through it, etc., liked about it (or didn't). What were your impressions of it when you first came across it or played in it.

From what I've been able to glean, it sounds like a highly detailed city for campaign play within the city.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

D&D (2024) Post in thread 'OAR 10 City State of the Invincible Overlord'

May 3, 2025

Can anybody provide a synopsis or elevator pitch?

I believe it was the first city setting published for D&D. It's also the first appearance, as far as I know, of urban versions of monsters like ogres and goblins. The city is wicked and in the control of what I believe they'll stat out as an LE or CE overlord, so PCs can't completely run wild and get away with it -- overthrowing the overlord would be the work of an entire deadly campaign -- but it's an extremely dangerous urban environment, the city as dungeon, as well as a more traditional setting.

That said, it's also a pretty...

• Whizbang Dustyboots

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[Mannahnin]

Old Justin Alexander review/overview, originally published 2001:

Ex-RPGNet Review: City State of the Invincible Overlord

A classic walks among us once more: It is time to visit the legendary City State of the Invincible Overlord, a hoary relic left from the younger days of roleplaying.Review Originally Published F

thealexandrian.net

Grognardia retrospective from 2009:

Retrospective: City State of the Invincible Overlord

When one thinks of the greatest city in the history of pulp fantasy, one immediately thinks of the City of the Black Toga, Lankhmar. And whe...

grognardia.blogspot.com

I was a younger 80s gamer who always heard mentions of it in gaming publications and from older 70s gamers, and made the sad mistake of buying the Mayfair boxed set at one point.

 

[Belen]

I did not encounter it until Necromancer Games published its d20 version in the 2000s. I had heard of it along with Wilderlands and Thracia. I own all of the Necromancer Games titles because that was one of the few 3pp d20 era stuff I had to keep.

I have never cracked the book for City State though.

 

[cbwjm]

I did not encounter it until Necromancer Games published its d20 version in the 2000s. I had heard of it along with Wilderlands and Thracia. I own all of the Necromancer Games titles because that was one of the few 3pp d20 era stuff I had to keep.

I have never cracked the book for City State though.

I didn't even realise it was a thing until recently. I think Matt Colville may have stolen the title of invincible overlord for his big bad guy in a campaign he was running but I don't think it related back to the book.

Old Justin Alexander review/overview, originally published 2001:

Ex-RPGNet Review: City State of the Invincible Overlord

A classic walks among us once more: It is time to visit the legendary City State of the Invincible Overlord, a hoary relic left from the younger days of roleplaying.Review Originally Published F

thealexandrian.net

Grognardia retrospective from 2009:

Retrospective: City State of the Invincible Overlord

When one thinks of the greatest city in the history of pulp fantasy, one immediately thinks of the City of the Black Toga, Lankhmar. And whe...

grognardia.blogspot.com

I was a younger 80s gamer who always heard mentions of it in gaming publications and from older 70s gamers, and made the sad mistake of buying the Mayfair boxed set at one point.

I wasn't quite born yet before it released. I've always had this idea that I was around but still a kid when it comes to dnd but I forget just how old it is.

Thanks for the articles, I had a brief look but nothing I found gave much detail. Sounds like it would have been a good resource for games that ended up in a city.

 

[SteveC]

The book was the first city supplement published for D&D back in the 70s. It had this huge campaign map, and a second map that was blank and you could fill in over time as you explored it.

It had several locations mapped out as mini-dungeons, but the whole city was laid out in rooms. It had tons of businesses with NPCs. There were a lot of story hooks and tables to randomly generate things you might need.

Now as it was the first such product like this, there were good and bad things about it. It was sort of random in terms of the NPCs and shop info, like the creators had just created them with generators despite that not being really available back in the 70s.

I think a new edition that would actually have NPCs and layout/structure that made more sense would be really interesting, as I found it hard to use in practice. But I was also very young back then, so maybe it made more sense, but it was just too big for me to figure out when I first saw it.

 

[Gus L]

I took a look through the 1st printing of City State of the Invincible Overlord the other day and it (like many early JG publications) is fascinating. I won't say it's especially usable, or the best city supplement ever or anything of that nature, but it's an amazing piece of maximalist simulation.

I don't think cities work well treated as dungeons, but CSIO certainly gives it a go with a lot of creativity and a huge effort. There's something fascinating in that. At the minimum it has some neat (sometimes dated) Swords & Sorcery ideas and content in it and offers a glimpse into early design methods, so it's well worth a look for anyone thinking about urban adventure design. I also appreciate how it (and a lot of JG content) are very much "level less" in that they aren't balanced are gated other then in a naturalistic way (and rather aggressively there - so many shopkeepers with several fighter levels - no assumption the party will play nice).

It gets me thinking about how I'd design a city/urban adventure though - my own inclination is to make city living all about costing money. A huge money sink for the PCs basically.

 

[Staffan]

It gets me thinking about how I'd design a city/urban adventure though - my own inclination is to make city living all about costing money. A huge money sink for the PCs basically.

I've seen rules like that, that go beyond regular "cost of living" in two RPGs: Conan d20 and Warhammer 4e.

In Conan, I believe the rule is that unless you are specifically putting money away toward saving for a particular thing, each time unit (I don't remember if it's week or month) spent in town costs half your money. You ride into town with a thousand silver, and a week later you've been partying like there's no tomorrow and have spent 500 on beverages, companionship, and entertainment. The week after that, you're being a bit more modest and spending 250 sp. After yet another week you're starting to feel the pinch and is down to 125 silver, and maybe it's time to start looking for the next job.

In Warhammer, you're assumed to have an actual job, and this job is connected to a particular social status. In between adventures, you basically lose all your money unless you use downtime time to sock it away in a bank or hide it somewhere or something similar (and if you want to get it back, you need to use a second downtime action to do that). Instead you roll at the start of each adventure for a relevant skill to see how well business has been going and get an appropriate amount of money depending on the roll and your social status.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've seen rules like that, that go beyond regular "cost of living" in two RPGs: Conan d20 and Warhammer 4e.

In Conan, I believe the rule is that unless you are specifically putting money away toward saving for a particular thing, each time unit (I don't remember if it's week or month) spent in town costs half your money. You ride into town with a thousand silver, and a week later you've been partying like there's no tomorrow and have spent 500 on beverages, companionship, and entertainment. The week after that, you're being a bit more modest and spending 250 sp. After yet another week you're starting to feel the pinch and is down to 125 silver, and maybe it's time to start looking for the next job.

In Warhammer, you're assumed to have an actual job, and this job is connected to a particular social status. In between adventures, you basically lose all your money unless you use downtime time to sock it away in a bank or hide it somewhere or something similar (and if you want to get it back, you need to use a second downtime action to do that). Instead you roll at the start of each adventure for a relevant skill to see how well business has been going and get an appropriate amount of money depending on the roll and your social status.

It seems like it'd be a lot more fun to have carousing rules. Paying fantasy rent feels like it'd only be fun for a certain segment of the player base.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I know Barbarians of Lemuria has a rule that you have to spend all the loot you got on the last job before the GM is allowed to award you XP. (Plus the book encourages you to use said spending to set up a later adventure hook, like blowing your money on a treasure map or a mansion with a mysterious past.)