D&D (2024) Psion Class: Green/Yellow/Red?

[Horwath]

I genuinely think all four subclasses are new and interesting and I challenge you to make something close-enough to those four subclasses with existing material. It will though require that you read the details of all four, and how they mesh with the base class and other abilities of that subclass, and not just skim.

This is a complicated class with a lot of moving parts that interact with each other. But it's a tad hard to see that if you just skim it.

subclasses are interesting, that I agree.
there is some cool features in them.
but all 4 can be pasted on sorcerer and will work.

Telekinetic propel+Subtle telekinesis is just rewritten telekinetic feat.

Psionic discipline can be metamagic option and be powered by it. Together with all subclass upgrades of it.

Psionic modes are just different take on Innate Sorcery.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

@mearls actually got quite a bit into this in the Happy Fun Hour, when he prototyped one attempt at a Concentration-focused Psion. People didn't like the idea of new systems that were not transparent existing spellcasting structures, particularly DMs.

The issue of compatibility is also a big one. With spell slots, psion levels stack with other caster levels on multiclass characters. If they used a different system they would make a much weaker multiclass.

Same goes for the wild talents. They work with spell slots from any source. If they did not they would be a whole lot weaker.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Psionic modes are just different take on Innate Sorcery.

Yes.

But the problem is the sorcerer, not the psion.

 

[Horwath]

Yes.

But the problem is the sorcerer, not the psion.

why?

not that I disagree or agree.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

why?

not that I disagree or agree.

The sorcerer was only added to the game because players wanted to play wizards but found prepared casting too complicated. And it was made a charisma based caster because at the time charisma was an underutilised stat. When prepared casting was dropped from the game it became obsolete. And now it is squatting in the design space needed by the mechanically similar but thematically and narratively distinct Psion. Not to mention contributing to the excessive number of charisma based casters in 5e.

Obviously, sorcerer can't be deleted mid edition, but if it allowed to exist in parallel with the psion for a time, then it could be axed in 6e, with psion taking it's place. At that time psion spell list could be separated further from the wizard, with the wizard loosing most of its psychic spells. The sorcerer subclasses could be divied up between wizard, warlock, bard and psion, so nothing is lost overall.

Aberrant Mind -> Psion
Divine Soul -> Warlock (merged with celestial) or Bard
Draconic -> Warlock (dragon patron)
Lunar -> Wizard
Shadow -> Wizard
Storm -> Bard
Wild -> Wizard

 

[Horwath]

The sorcerer was only added to the game because players wanted to play wizards but found prepared casting too complicated. And it was made a charisma based caster because at the time charisma was an underutilised stat. When prepared casting was dropped from the game it became obsolete. And now it is squatting in the design space needed by the mechanically similar but thematically and narratively distinct Psion. Not to mention contributing to the excessive number of charisma based casters in 5e.

Obviously, sorcerer can't be deleted mid edition, but if it allowed to exist in parallel with the psion for a time, then it could be axed in 6e, with psion taking it's place. At that time psion spell list could be separated further from the wizard, with the wizard loosing most of its psychic spells. The sorcerer subclasses could be divied up between wizard, warlock, bard and psion, so nothing is lost overall.

Aberrant Mind -> Psion
Divine Soul -> Warlock (merged with celestial) or Bard
Draconic -> Warlock (dragon patron)
Lunar -> Wizard
Shadow -> Wizard
Storm -> Bard
Wild -> Wizard

partially agree.

sorcerer was a good addition.

in 3E you had:
wizard: prepared slots
sorcerer: spells known, free slots
psion: spells(powers) known, point based cost, possibility of augmentation.

it was 3 different approaches.

honestly, i 5E we can only have a "mage" class with wizard/sorcerer/psion be approaches to arcana. picked at 1st level.

maybe psion needs to get the axe in 5E(if it's made like in current UA), just have a flavor of sorcerer(Int casting stat) to describe "mind powers".

in short, Psion needs to be really different in mechanics or it's space in books can be replaced by more feats/spells/subclasses.

 

[Mecheon]

honestly, i 5E we can only have a "mage" class with wizard/sorcerer/psion be approaches to arcana. picked at 1st level.

Wouldn't really work. Wizard alone has so many specific requirements to it that you'd just waste page space filling in those each and every time, yet alone the other two.

maybe psion needs to get the axe in 5E(if it's made like in current UA), just have a flavor of sorcerer(Int casting stat) to describe "mind powers".

Psion's made it in every edition thus far. I think fans are more keen to scrap classes than WotC are.

 

[Parmandur]

Wouldn't really work. Wizard alone has so many specific requirements to it that you'd just waste page space filling in those each and every time, yet alone the other two.


Psion's made it in every edition thus far. I think fans are more keen to scrap classes than WotC are.

Big issue with Psionics is that, yes, it was in every Edition...but each time was entirely different from every other time. Even 3.5 was a pretty major overhaul compared to the Core Classses. There simply isn't a "classic" to rally around.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Big issue with Psionics is that, yes, it was in every Edition...but each time was entirely different from every other time. Even 3.5 was a pretty major overhaul compared to the Core Classses. There simply isn't a "classic" to rally around.

Nevertheless, it is an important part of D&D lore.

Unlike sorcerer.

 

[Parmandur]

Nevertheless, it is an important part of D&D lore.

Unlike sorcerer.

Sorcerer is set to stay, wince they ha eMetamagic as a Thing and a lot of momentum now. 2024 did quite a bit to boost Metamagic and make the Sorcerer feel like it fills the role of fictional magic like Channelling from Wheel of Time. Sorcerer's will stay in any future iteration.