D&D General Thoughts on HD and Blood Magic

[SkidAce]

The recent "defiler" UA looks more like blood magic to me. And it got me thinking.

My previous version of blood magic was too complicated. The defiler mechanic seems perfect.

But then I thought, extra damage is nice, but if you want to have "MOAR" power because you use evil blood magic, affecting the attack roll or DC of spells would represent that.

Would you sacrifice a HD for a +2 to attack or DC? HD for a bless/bane effect?

How much should a HD be worth, to be fair, and powerful enough to tempt its use?

edit:typo

 

[el-remmen]

Honestly when I have done similar effects, I have the player/creature roll the hit die sacrificed and that is the bonus or penalty (or the result to look at on a chart).

 

[bedir than]

Honestly when I have done similar effects, I have the player/creature roll the hit die sacrificed and that is the bonus or penalty (or the result to look at on a chart).

I was going to suggest the same thing.
The HD = the role and like Battle Master dice can be added to attack or damage or other things.

I also wish the HD used dropped the current HP by that amount.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd probably have the HD affect hp just as you've mentioned. I'd like others to be able to sacrifice HD for the caster (evil casters sacrifice slaves or prisoners). Maybe have a critical mass that allows a much large area for a spell like bless as well as a long duration. I think I'd want blood magic to enhance spells rather than providing bonuses like +HD to your damage roll.

A PC cleric using blood magic might have the whole party sacrifice a HD, losing hp equal to half the HD+Con mod sacrificed and bless the whole party for an hour or maybe 8 hours, no concentration is required. Hp lost in this way can't be recovered with magic or other effects, only resting and recovering all your HD removes this hp loss as your very life force is tied up in the magic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is what I use for sacrificial magic, a modification of the rules in the A5e version of Adventures in Zeitgeist:

Sacrificial Magic

Any character with the Rite Master feat can potentially cast any spell of an appropriate level with the ritual tag. Additionally, any character with Constitution 13+ and Intelligence 5+ can cut themselves, bleed a copious amount, and meditate on their blood for ten minutes in order to cast a small selection of ritual spells. When doing this, the character expends any number of Hit Dice. More powerful spells require a payment of more Hit Dice, but the spells do not require any other material components, holy symbols, or spell foci (except those with a stated cost).

For two Hit Dice, they can cast augury.

For four Hit Dice, they can cast divination.

For five Hit Dice, they can cast contact other plane.

If the character has access to further ritual magic, it can be cast through blood sacrifice as well, on a one Hit Die per level of spell basis. Blood sacrifice can allow a character to cast a ritual spell they would otherwise be too low level to cast (a primary draw for the technique).

It should be noted that the blood sacrifice doesn’t have to be the caster’s blood. For sacrifices up to four Hit Dice, any creature’s blood can be used, with the understanding that a sacrifice equal to the creatures Hit Dice will kill the creature. Spells of 5th level or higher require a blood sacrifice of a sapient being to proceed. Doing so to an unwilling creature is an inherently evil act.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The recent "defiler" UA looks more like blood magic to me. And it got me thinking.

My previous version of blood magic was too complicated. The defiler mechanic seems perfect.

But then I thought, extra damage is nice, but if you want to have "MOAR" power because you use evil blood magic, affecting the attack roll or DC of spells would represent that.

Would you sacrifice a HD for a +2 to attack or DC? HD for a bless/bane effect?

How much should a HD be worth, to be fair, and powerful enough to tempt its use?

edit:typo

I'm not a massive fan of burning HP for power, even through the proxy of hit dice: Its always seemed to be a way of having additional power/spotlight at a price that another character (the healer) will have to pay.

If you're trying to set a price for a hit dice, I would use this as a basis: a 1st level Cure wounds spell will restore about 3HD worth of hit dice, with each additional level upcast curing two more.

Therefore an effect similar to a 1st level spell would cost 3hit dice. An effect similar to a 3rd level spell would cost 7 hit dice. And so on.

Action cost will play a part. if it only takes a bonus action or less to activate, then it should be less powerful than a spell that takes an action to cast etc.

 

[SkidAce]

I'm not a massive fan of burning HP for power, even through the proxy of hit dice: Its always seemed to be a way of having additional power/spotlight at a price that another character (the healer) will have to pay.

If you're trying to set a price for a hit dice, I would use this as a basis: a 1st level Cure wounds spell will restore about 3HD worth of hit dice, with each additional level upcast curing two more.

Therefore an effect similar to a 1st level spell would cost 3hit dice. An effect similar to a 3rd level spell would cost 7 hit dice. And so on.

Action cost will play a part. if it only takes a bonus action or less to activate, then it should be less powerful than a spell that takes an action to cast etc.

Thanks, that is a thoughtfull and well reasoned reply.

I am certainly going to have to reconsider the costs. (My 1st thought was to treat a hd as a sorcery point in power.)

 

[SkidAce]

Or I could say the HD used in blood magic has to naturally restore. (I'm expending hd, not taking a hd's worth of damage).

 

[SkidAce]

Honestly when I have done similar effects, I have the player/creature roll the hit die sacrificed and that is the bonus or penalty (or the result to look at on a chart).

What would you do if the character had multiple hd sizes from multi-classing?

 

[SkidAce]

This is what I use for sacrificial magic, a modification of the rules in the A5e version of Adventures in Zeitgeist:

Sacrificial Magic

Any character with the Rite Master feat can potentially cast any spell of an appropriate level with the ritual tag. Additionally, any character with Constitution 13+ and Intelligence 5+ can cut themselves, bleed a copious amount, and meditate on their blood for ten minutes in order to cast a small selection of ritual spells. When doing this, the character expends any number of Hit Dice. More powerful spells require a payment of more Hit Dice, but the spells do not require any other material components, holy symbols, or spell foci (except those with a stated cost).

For two Hit Dice, they can cast augury.

For four Hit Dice, they can cast divination.

For five Hit Dice, they can cast contact other plane.

If the character has access to further ritual magic, it can be cast through blood sacrifice as well, on a one Hit Die per level of spell basis. Blood sacrifice can allow a character to cast a ritual spell they would otherwise be too low level to cast (a primary draw for the technique).

It should be noted that the blood sacrifice doesn’t have to be the caster’s blood. For sacrifices up to four Hit Dice, any creature’s blood can be used, with the understanding that a sacrifice equal to the creatures Hit Dice will kill the creature. Spells of 5th level or higher require a blood sacrifice of a sapient being to proceed. Doing so to an unwilling creature is an inherently evil act.

Very interesting.

Might be hard to merge with the defiler example, but its worth looking at.