D&D 5E (2024) What’s the difference between sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards?

[Micah Sweet]

Truth. WoTC really needs to do than just talk about Exploration and Social Interaction. It needs to have them as mechanical features in each of its' classes.

Of course, A5e does that.

 

[Minigiant]

Truth. WoTC really needs to do than just talk about Exploration and Social Interaction. It needs to have them as mechanical features in each of its' classes.

They can't because historically, those pillars were unbalanced across classes by a WIDE margin.

So they'd have to rejigger them and get the community to jive with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They can't because historically, those pillars were unbalanced across classes by a WIDE margin.

So they'd have to rejigger them and get the community to jive with it.

Another reason to pull the trigger and make an incompatible 6e.

 

[Corinnguard]

They can't because historically, those pillars were unbalanced across classes by a WIDE margin.

So they'd have to rejigger them and get the community to jive with it.

That's only because each class in 5e put more of its' focus on one or two of the pillars, and not on all three of them in terms of class features. As for the rejiggering part, Level Up has already done it.

 

[Minigiant]

That's only because each class in 5e put more of its' focus on one or two of the pillars, and not on all three of them in terms of class features. As for the rejiggering part, Level Up has already done it.

Not fairly nor balanced.

For example, ranger has little social power even in A5E because it's still based on 5e where it does not.

So you'd have to rejigger a 6/4/0 class with a 6/1/3 class and a 9/1/0 class.

Do you make them all 6/3/1? Do you make all classes have a minimum of 2 in exploration and social.? The community would agree how to balance sorcerer, warlock, and wizard in a world with barbarian, ranger, and bard.

We never had that discussion.

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[Corinnguard]

So you'd have to rejigger a 6/4/0 class with a 6/1/3 class and a 9/1/0 class.

Which classes are you referencing here with regards to the three pillars?

For example, ranger has little social power even in A5E because it's still based on 5e where it does not.

True, Wilderness Mystique appears to be the only Social Interaction feature for the A5e Ranger. The 2014 Ranger and the 2024 Ranger have no Social Interaction features whatsoever. Just features for the Combat and Exploration pillars. So, the A5e Ranger is one half-step above those two versions of the Ranger class. That's enough for me. I don't know how much more sociable you want the Ranger to be.

Do you make them all 6/3/1? Do you make all classes have a minimum of 2 in exploration and social.? The community would agree how to balance sorcerer, warlock, and wizard in a world with barbarian, ranger, and bard.

As long as each of the classes has something for each of the three pillars, I am okay.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Hmm. Well, I'd say in my game class matters very much when it comes to character exploration, it doesn't sound like this is a minority because there are others who feel the same. Cherrypicking a cleric yammering about Lath all the time doesn't really cut it.. but certainly I would expect the character to behave within the bounds of that religious institution (not pointlessly kill a incapacitated NPC out of boredom, etc.), they might confer with the DM for higher guidance if my players have imbibed too much and the night goes long. My Mark Twainesque Americana bumpkin Oath of Ancients Pali frequently keeps his vow in mind. I think, if the players have the expectation, then those class specific social differences start to gain weight... My group likes to go inspiration-whoring as well.

Anyway, it ties back to how I feel that alot of the difference between these casters lies at the story level. With the Warlock's pact frequently annoying me because even if my player does a great job planning all the details of their pact.. it is more personalized/specialized than other classes tend to run, it requires a little more cognitive loading on me with the whole patron deal vs. something more institutional.

Though, I have had a fiend patron be great-but-basic - "my evil is ineffable" type of guy. Just granted power to a mortal, confident any act on the material plane under his umbrella will eventually bring more evil into the world. I feel like the good/evil patrons are easier in that way vs the more specialized patrons. GOO can be easy as well, with "it was bored" being a fine rationale

 

[Minigiant]

Which classes are you referencing here with regards to the three pillars?

Ranger, Bard, Fighter

True, Wilderness Mystique appears to be the only Social Interaction feature for the A5e Ranger. The 2014 Ranger and the 2024 Ranger have no Social Interaction features whatsoever. Just features for the Combat and Exploration pillars. So, the A5e Ranger is one half-step above those two versions of the Ranger class. That's enough for me. I don't know how much more sociable you want the Ranger to be.

Not enough for me.

If you are going to care about teams exploration and social, you have to balance it.

Balanced in 1 pillar, Balanced in 3 pillars, and Balanced across 3 pillars is 3 different designs.

Personally I'd nerf language spells and make Ranger and Warlock fulfill the Linguist role.

Sorcerer would mimic Bard in powering Cha checks via spells and be the Charmer.

Wizard is Sage. Making Int checks and divining knowledge to use in conversation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ranger, Bard, Fighter

Not enough for me.

If you are going to care about teams exploration and social, you have to balance it.

Balanced in 1 pillar, Balanced in 3 pillars, and Balanced across 3 pillars is 3 different designs.

Personally I'd nerf language spells and make Ranger and Warlock fulfill the Linguist role.

Sorcerer would mimic Bard in powering Cha checks via spells and be the Charmer.

Wizard is Sage. Making Int checks and divining knowledge to use in conversation.

Sounds like you should look into making some homebrew class feature options, if you're unhappy with the official selection. Lots of 3pp options too. I have a compilation document full of them.

 

[Minigiant]

Sounds like you should look into making some homebrew class feature options, if you're unhappy with the official selection. Lots of 3pp options too. I have a compilation document full of them.

Can't be done with 3PP.

That's my point.
You'd have to design D&D from scratch to balance across all 3 pillars.