Acquisitions Inc. switching to Daggerheart

[definiteFreakyFishGuy]

And from this DM's perspective what you want sounds heavy, slow, and clunky. And much clunkier than Daggerheart is.

"A few books". With the sole exception of a couple of monster statblocks and a map if I need books in play and this isn't my first time running it then something has gone badly wrong or the game is too clunky. Daggerheart, incidentally, passes the test. And although Daggerheart has a DM screen again that's weight and a barrier I don't need.

Instead all I need for Daggerheart are a tablet for bookmarked stat blocks and notes, and some dice - although I also like tokens for fear (I could just use a D12 and no monster in the game has more than 12hp so I use dice for monster hp and stress).

The players have their character sheet (single sided in play with the other side having background info and instructions on levelling up), between 6 and 12 active cards depending on level, dice, tokens (dice can be used), and a pencil each.

So what on earth do you run? Fate? Risus? Actually it can't be either as they aren't so clunky and slow as to need the books in play.

You must despise every edition of D&D with the passion of a thousand burning suns. The standard you have set literally does not allow a character to read a spell printed on their own character sheet with the full text of the spell sitting there in front of them; it's almost always faster to find the card with the bright evocative artwork for the spell or ability in question sitting face up on the table than to flip pages and scan down to find the dry text of the spell.

As for the cards? They contain all the other character rules anyone needs already printed out. There is zero time spent being unable to read handwriting. Zero time spent flip flipping through pages of a large, heavy, and clunky rulebook to find the spell, feat, or class feature. Instead the player always has it to hand unless they have somehow lost it since the start of the session (which hasn't happened yet). And the spell or ability is written clearly and succinctly.

Based on your stated preferences you must either run something ultra rules light that somehow requires multiple rullebooks and a screen? I'm curious what it is?

Either that or you have dismissed Daggerheart without having played it despite it being actively superior at what you claim to value to any other game remotely of its complexity. (Does this make it the best at everything? No. But the cards really do help keep the pace from slowing for the rules).

We get it, you don't like DND.

 

[kermit4karate]

My takeaway from this is that I'm the only person on this thread who thinks Hasbro could possibly deliver a new product to market in 6-8 weeks under any circumstances, since that was my original claim. Got it.

Never mind the release interval between each of the 2024 core rulebooks, which were each still in development at the time, was...less than 8 weeks.

 

[aramis erak]

I've heard it characterized as being able to be played like 5E before, if someone doesn't like the narrative bits.... I'm sorry, then what's the value proposition? It's either different in ways that create a barrier to entry for many people, or it's like 5E. Why not just play 5E, or go with something truly different?

It can be played in a 5e manner, that is, players only responding by what they have their character attempt. That is not how it is written to be played.
It has a very different character creation paradigm from D&D 5; it's more attribute driven, has a different selection of 6 attributes, a very different magic paradigm.
The initiative system (or lack there of) is also quite different. Players go in whatever order they agree upon. NPCs only get the spotlight from player rolled failure or player rolled fear. That alone really helps.

The rest mechanics are tighter than D&D's while being more flexible, too.

It has a pair of options for making it more 5E like, tho' they are equally towards 4e and towards Pathfinder 2e: introduction of a round system, during which each player gets three spotlights. The second is the optional use of gridded movement. Range bands in 5' squares of 1/3/6/12/more.

there are forms for those who don't care to use the cards. But then you have to keep track of what's active and what's in vault. Tokens help there.
.
the one rule I needed not included was simple enough: encumbrance for carrying extra stuff. My players and I cobbled together a method:
It's in numbers of "dice" of encumbrance; 1 hand items are 1 face of a d6, 2 hand are 2, unworn armor is a full 6.

step	1	2	3	4	5
Evasion Mod	-1	-1	-2	-2	-3
Agi Mod	±0	-1	-1	-2	-2

It may be a solid game by itself, but the videos I've seen relied on a level of player involvement I rarely see with any type of game, almost like some of those players auditioned for it. That makes them actors, not regular players.

I don't see it disappearing, but how big can the market for it be alongside D&D?

Given that Amazon sold out multiple times, Darrington had to run a second printing within 60 days of the first, and it hit the top of the chart at drivethru as well for PDF...

... and HasBro execs pretty openly state they think the D&D game line to be severely underperforming...

There's a very real chance that it may get like 1998 looked for D&D - a new edition they can't afford to print, and corporate owners who were trying for quicker-cheaper-faster to the point of nothing getting out the door.

Is it not possible to be both ambivalent and mildly curious about something at the same time?

That's not how you come across in the last 7 pages. (I'm set for 20 posts a page; not everyine here is.)

Oh, and if you're actually curious, go read the SRD. It's missing the art, the example text, and the majority of the campaign frames. But it has the rules. All the ones that aren't specific to a campaign frame. The SRD is on Darrington's website and has been since release.

 

[kermit4karate]

It can be played in a 5e manner, that is, players only responding by what they have their character attempt. That is not how it is written to be played.
It has a very different character creation paradigm from D&D 5; it's more attribute driven, has a different selection of 6 attributes, a very different magic paradigm.
The initiative system (or lack there of) is also quite different. Players go in whatever order they agree upon. NPCs only get the spotlight from player rolled failure or player rolled fear. That alone really helps.

The rest mechanics are tighter than D&D's while being more flexible, too.

It has a pair of options for making it more 5E like, tho' they are equally towards 4e and towards Pathfinder 2e: introduction of a round system, during which each player gets three spotlights. The second is the optional use of gridded movement. Range bands in 5' squares of 1/3/6/12/more.

there are forms for those who don't care to use the cards. But then you have to keep track of what's active and what's in vault. Tokens help there.
.
the one rule I needed not included was simple enough: encumbrance for carrying extra stuff. My players and I cobbled together a method:
It's in numbers of "dice" of encumbrance; 1 hand items are 1 face of a d6, 2 hand are 2, unworn armor is a full 6.

step	1	2	3	4	5
Evasion Mod	-1	-1	-2	-2	-3
Agi Mod	±0	-1	-1	-2	-2

Given that Amazon sold out multiple times, Darrington had to run a second printing within 60 days of the first, and it hit the top of the chart at drivethru as well for PDF...

... and HasBro execs pretty openly state they think the D&D game line to be severely underperforming...

There's a very real chance that it may get like 1998 looked for D&D - a new edition they can't afford to print, and corporate owners who were trying for quicker-cheaper-faster to the point of nothing getting out the door.

That's not how you come across in the last 7 pages. (I'm set for 20 posts a page; not everyine here is.)

Oh, and if you're actually curious, go read the SRD. It's missing the art, the example text, and the majority of the campaign frames. But it has the rules. All the ones that aren't specific to a campaign frame. The SRD is on Darrington's website and has been since release.

I appreciate the first half of your comment, but saying that's "...not how you come across in the last 7 pages" is off base. I never said I hated Daggerheart. I said I'm mildly curious about it, which remains.

I'm mildly curious in learning more about it, but I'm not curious enough to actively seek out much more info beyond, ideally, watching some active-play videos soon. That'll tell me more than the 2,000-word diatribes (not yours, though; your breakdown of DH here was great).

 

[SkidAce]

Ha! When I'm trying to gauge the actual gameplay for something, doesn't help when the players and GM look like they had to audition for it.

No offense to Matt Mercer or other professionals, but they aren't representative of typical.

I found that they exhibited typical home campaign players behavior; bad jokes, forgetting abilities, chasing after meaningless NPCs, shopping, bad/good dice runs, and overall camaraderie. Especially Campaign 1.

There could be a case for it being a bit more polished now, and they always have had an edge on the voices (of course).

But it was just like listening to my various home groups, and THATS* what drew me to listening to them and following their adventures.





*well that and the fact that they donated to 826LA charity...gotta respect...

 

[kermit4karate]

I found that they exhibited typical home campaign players behavior; bad jokes, forgetting abilities, chasing after meaningless NPCs, shopping, bad/good dice runs, and overall camaraderie. Especially Campaign 1.

There could be a case for it being a bit more polished now, and they always have had an edge on the voices (of course).

But it was just like listening to my various home groups, and THATS* what drew me to listening to them and following their adventures.





*well that and the fact that they donated to 826LA charity...gotta respect...

Fair enough. I enjoy watching their games for entertainment value more than educational.

I like watching CR games, just not using them to set my expectations for a game in real life. I'm more inclined to observe actual play at a local game store for that, where the vibe is...different.

 

[Agamon]

Fair enough. I enjoy watching their games for entertainment value more than educational.

I like watching CR games, just not using them to set my expectations for a game in real life. I'm more inclined to observe actual play at a local game store for that, where the vibe is...different.

If you do want to see DH played in a more D&D-style, the Age of Umbra AP is pretty good. CR admitted to having die-hard old habits while playing the game. CR also likes their big terrain and mini sets, which is a bit more prep-heavy than DH suggests. But it does show that the game can be played successfully in different ways.

Also, I've fallen off CR campaigns because I tune out when the fighting starts. That didn't happen to me with AoU...

 

[Seramus]

Is it not possible to be both ambivalent and mildly curious about something at the same time?

It should be possible. Ambivalence is being torn or conflicted between opposing opinions, and one of those can certainly be mild curiosity.

 

[kermit4karate]

It should be possible. Ambivalence is being torn or conflicted between opposing opinions, and one of those can certainly be mild curiosity.

Not should. Is. Because it's what I am. I kinda-sorta care, see some kinda interesting things in DH, maybe has some potential for me, some things I don't like too, but I'm not deeply, intensely curious about it yet. Wait and see mostly.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Any Daggerheart actual play videos (not just audio) out there anyone recommends? Other than Dodoborne and CR please? Not a fan of Dodoborne, and CR doesn't compare to my real life since they're all actors.

Not trying to change your mind, but I think this video offers a different and more useful perspective than an "actual play".