D&D General What's your view on a pirate-driven campaign?

[Celebrim]

The trouble with that is the players become emotionally invested in their ship in the same way that they become invested in their characters. One does not “trade up” the Millennium Falcon or the Enterprise.

Only if your ship is the Millenium Falcon or the Enterprise. You don't become emotionally invested in a garbage scow or a rotten tub. The ship has to be something you have depended on successfully and is well, better than other ships. The Millenium Falcon was legitimately the fastest ship of its size in the galaxy, and it was disguised as a "hunk of junk" to better work as a smuggling vessel. No one expected a cheap budget freighter like a YT-1300 to move like a fast courier, to have aboard an experimental super computer as an astronavigator, or to have a cutting edge hyperdrive. The Constitution class ships were the pride of Star Fleet, the first human designed vessels that could outperform their likely peer level opponents while still banking all the sensors and labs of a Vulcan science vessel. Starfleet only had like 12 of them.

I have done these sort of campaigns before and the ships players get emotionally attached to are the same as magic items that they get emotionally attached to. You don't upgrade Excalibur. You do upgrade a +2 longsword. In fact, in the case of the ships, the PC's may be literally continuously upgrading their prized ships with new capabilities, magical items like fireproof sails, enhanced crews, magical items for the crews, etc. But they are only going to be doing that if the ships is already capable of being "the best" at something. The Paladin was emotionally attached to his advanced frigate of superior design the same way he was emotionally attached to his +5 holy avenger. But that didn't stop him from wanting ships of the line.

 

[Zardnaar]

Only if your ship is the Millenium Falcon or the Enterprise. You don't become emotionally invested in a garbage scow or a rotten tub. The ship has to be something you have depended on successfully and is well, better than other ships. The Millenium Falcon was legitimately the fastest ship of its size in the galaxy, and it was disguised as a "hunk of junk" to better work as a smuggling vessel. No one expected a cheap budget freighter like a YT-1300 to move like a fast courier, to have aboard an experimental super computer as an astronavigator, or to have a cutting edge hyperdrive. The Constitution class ships were the pride of Star Fleet, the first human designed vessels that could outperform their likely peer level opponents while still banking all the sensors and labs of a Vulcan science vessel. Starfleet only had like 12 of them.

I have done these sort of campaigns before and the ships players get emotionally attached to are the same as magic items that they get emotionally attached to. You don't upgrade Excalibur. You do upgrade a +2 longsword. In fact, in the case of the ships, the PC's may be literally continuously upgrading their prized ships with new capabilities, magical items like fireproof sails, enhanced crews, magical items for the crews, etc. But they are only going to be doing that if the ships is already capable of being "the best" at something. The Paladin was emotionally attached to his advanced frigate of superior design the same way he was emotionally attached to his +5 holy avenger. But that didn't stop him from wanting ships of the line.

Star Wars D6 and d20 both had rules for upgrading ships . So did Spelljammer.

They generally look for something better than a YT300 as a base ship though. YT2000 or 2400. Ghtroc as its free kinda. Spelljamner its an elven boat generally maybe best human ones.

You often get variants on Millenium Falcon or Ebon Hawk or joke names eg Parsec Chicken or whatever.

 

[Celebrim]

Star Wars D6 and d20 both had rules for upgrading ships . So did Spelljammer.

They generally look for something better than a YT300 as a base ship though. YT2000 or 2400.

In my ongoing campaign, the PC's "hero ship" is based off a homebrew Suwantek Systems TL-2200 Medium Freighter itself based of the canon TL-1200 Medium Transport. And it has been heavily upgraded and indeed started the campaign pretty heavily upgraded because I didn't want to go through a lengthy period of getting a good ship and I also wanted to provide right from the start for pilots and techies and such as character concepts with meaningful value to the party.

At some point we ought to backstory how they hunters got hold of the ship.

 

[Hussar]

For me, the ship-v-ship combat etc. would be a large part of the point of doing a maritime or pirate campaign in the first place. If I just want hand-to-hand combat I can get my fill of that with a conventional land-based campaign.

For me, this is rather the point. If all you're doing is boarding actions and no actual ship combat, why bother with ships at all? If you're just going to skip over all the elements of actually BEING on a ship - skipping over the upkeep of the ship, living on the ship, carrying freight, all the parts that make a ship a ship - and instead just "hunting treasure, defying authorities" etc, why bother with the ship at all?

If having a naval based campaign just means that you have a different painted backdrop on your stage, but then run a bog standard D&D campaign, I'd say that that isn't what I want out of a naval campaign.

But, thinking about it, I wonder how many players think like @Paul Farquhar. Which would nicely explain why naval campaigns fail IME. I'm thinking that the ship and the nautical stuff should be the focus of the campaign, and they just want yet another bog standard campaign, just slightly wetter than normal.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Which would nicely explain why naval campaigns fail IME

The issue is Naval campaign =/= Pirate campaign. You are talking about very different things with very different parameters for success. Pirates work fine in D&D, but Naval does not, and is better served by different rulesets.

 

[Zardnaar]

They're not. Its your definition of pirates being different to naval.

Skull and Shackles Pathfinder
Naval combat

Pirates of the Caribbean
Naval combat

Black Sails TV show
Naval Combat

Spelljammer
Naval Combat

Assassins Creed: Black flag
Naval Combat

Port Royal
Naval Combat

Sid Meier's Pirates
Naval combat

Complete mystery why someplayers might expect Naval combat. Can't figure that one out myself. D&D being a bit crap at Naval combat espicially 5E is somewhat irrelevant

 

[GrimCo]

Naval combat doesn't need to be center focus and main theme, but players in pirate campaign usually expect at least some action on the high seas. It could be ship against Kraken, escaping military ships, or raiding undefended merchant. Even just trying to survive storm at sea is iconic trope (one that leads usually to some unexplored mysterious island).

Best one can do is use it in small doses, and like @Hussar suggested, keep it to small scale with as few combatants as possible.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They're not. Its your definition of pirates being different to naval.

Skull and Shackles Pathfinder
Naval combat

Pirates of the Caribbean
Naval combat

Black Sails TV show
Naval Combat

Spelljammer
Naval Combat

Assassins Creed: Black flag
Naval Combat

Port Royal
Naval Combat

Sid Meier's Pirates
Naval combat

Complete mystery why someplayers might expect Naval combat. Can't figure that one out myself. D&D being a bit crap at Naval combat espicially 5E is somewhat irrelevant

Has some naval combat does not make it Pirates or not Pirates. Nor does it make it Naval. It's just something that might happen (and can be handwaved around if your ruleset doesn't support it). The Pirates genre stems entirely from Treasure Island, which does not include any naval combat or piracy. The Naval genre stems largely from Hornblower, and will involve themes like rank, position, responsibility and duty (naval combat often plays a larger role, and pirates are always evil).

Spelljammer, for example. You might run a Pirate themed campaign, with treasure hunts, lawless frontiers and a hostile lawful stupid navy. Or you might run a Naval themed campaign, with PCs as dutiful officers in said lawful stupid navy (notably, protagonists in this genre are never enlisted men). Or you might do a planet-of-the-week exploration themed campaign. Also, it has terrible ship combat (in any edition), which is best avoided whatever your campaign's theme is.

 

[Hussar]

The Pirates genre stems entirely from Treasure Island,

Sorry, but Treasure Island is hardly the be all and end all of the pirate genre. After all, Pirates of the Carribean is obviously Piratey. As is Sinbad. Conan does piracy quite well in a number of stories. I would argue that the Pirate genre is slightly broader than a single novel.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sorry, but Treasure Island is hardly the be all and end all of the pirate genre. After all, Pirates of the Carribean is obviously Piratey. As is Sinbad.

Mostly in the 20th century, influenced by Treasure Island, movies. And ship combat is not usually an element. The movies are more treasure hunting with a bit of planet-of-the-week exploration.

Conan does piracy quite well in a number of stories.

With no ship combat, and the actual acts of piracy referenced but not depicted in detail. Queen of the Black Coast is mostly a treasure hunt through the jungle.

I would argue that the Pirate genre is slightly broader than a single novel.

A single novel that casts a very long shadow.