D&D General Why Enworld should liberate D&D from Hasbro

[popuman]

shrugs
At this point I don't care. D&D has been in WotC hands for 28 years and in the hands of Hasbro for 26 years. And it's not as if the time under TSR was all that great either, especially there at the end...

We liked Basic D&D at the time, we liked AD&D2e at the time, we liked D&D 3e at the time, we didn't like 4e, but D&D 5e (2014) we liked, and we see D&D 5e (2024) as an improvement over all. While I like some aspects of 3e, the overall feel of the D&D 5e (2024) is better. I do like certain 2e and 3e settings better then how they are presented in 5e, but as I have access to all that old material, not really an issue for me...

As we have access to all of the old (pre 5e) material in relatively cheap pdf. Hasbro could F-up D&D again and most of us would shrug their shoulders. Especially us 'old timers' need to realize that the current D&D isn't being made for us that started back in the 80s (or even earlier), it's being made for more current generations. You can complain, but the reality is that in a couple of decades we won't be around anymore, our existence nothing more then a memory. I've heard similar complaints from old timers that complained about TSR and 2e in a similar vein. D&D is 51 years old, older then most of us, it has had different custodians, it will have new custodians in the future...

If you really want to liberate D&D from Hasbro, go earn $10.5 billion and buy Hasbro. Otherwise, just get to grips with reality.

Can we close the thread with the above post? Thanks!

 

[Rainbow Scissors]

shrugs
At this point I don't care. D&D has been in WotC hands for 28 years and in the hands of Hasbro for 26 years. And it's not as if the time under TSR was all that great either, especially there at the end...

We liked Basic D&D at the time, we liked AD&D2e at the time, we liked D&D 3e at the time, we didn't like 4e, but D&D 5e (2014) we liked, and we see D&D 5e (2024) as an improvement over all. While I like some aspects of 3e, the overall feel of the D&D 5e (2024) is better. I do like certain 2e and 3e settings better then how they are presented in 5e, but as I have access to all that old material, not really an issue for me...

As we have access to all of the old (pre 5e) material in relatively cheap pdf. Hasbro could F-up D&D again and most of us would shrug their shoulders. Especially us 'old timers' need to realize that the current D&D isn't being made for us that started back in the 80s (or even earlier), it's being made for more current generations. You can complain, but the reality is that in a couple of decades we won't be around anymore, our existence nothing more then a memory. I've heard similar complaints from old timers that complained about TSR and 2e in a similar vein. D&D is 51 years old, older then most of us, it has had different custodians, it will have new custodians in the future...

If you really want to liberate D&D from Hasbro, go earn $10.5 billion and buy Hasbro. Otherwise, just get to grips with reality.

I agree with much of this statement.

Though, I'm not 100% in agreement that contemporary D&D is necessarily being made for the current generation.
I'm not really sure who it is being made for at this point.
Still, the D&D brand will likely sell well, regardless of the contents.

 

[popuman]

The current iteration of D&D certainly has appeal. The popularity and the sales figures show it despite all the naysayers. At this point the naysayers have plenty of choices allowing them to find their niche. Posting in social media about your dislike/hatred for WoTC/Hasbro/5E serves no purpose. I’d rather use that energy to play and elevate those other choices rather than post yet another rant about how WoTC/Hasbro/5E are horrible and do not resonate with you.

Things change and evolve. You can embrace change or find an alternative that resonates with you.

 

[dave2008]

Aside from the D&D brand, which WOTC purchased and was then purchased by Hasbro, I argue that 13th Age is as much D&D as 4th edition is. Maybe moreso since the designers didn't have corporate mandates that guided design. Same with Pathfinder.

I bring it up because I often see a lot of "I sure wish Hasbro would make the perfect D&D I have in my head" ignoring the dozens of RPGs doing what they want.

As far as I'm concerned, Shadowdark is as much D&D as any of them from 2nd edition on. No one working on D&D above 1st Edition actually came up with the brand. Everyone else bought it or bought their way in. The rest is just trademark law.

While I agree with the general sentiment, I disagree with the bold part. No one does exactly what I want, but that is the beauty of house rules and the beating heart of D&D IMO - make the game your own!

 

[dave2008]

Even the mantra of "5e is the best-selling edition of D&D ever" isn't accurate at all; Basic (admittedly, I'm playing a little fast and loose with what counts as basic, but Ben Riggs did so when he presented the data, so there it is) outsold it by considerably more than 2x. And 1e AD&D sold about as well as 5e if you round a little bit.

No that it matters - but I think you need to check those numbers again!

 

[Lanefan]

Data from: D&D Historical Sales Data



The three D&D Basic Sets combined sold about 3 million units.

And this doesn't account for the observed fact that 1e Monster Manuals, when left on a hidden bookshelf at a DM's home, can and will self-replicate. Put one somewhere where you can't see it and two weeks later when you look there will be two or three of them. Every time.

Try it. You'll see.

 

[Stormonu]

My best guess: prejudice...

Sidenote: That illustration wants me to barf rainbows! I have no issue with the subject matter, but I strongly dislike the illustration style. And while the Beholder in love is cute, it's imho at best a playful illustration. If this is your D&D game, and you like it that way, have fun! More power to you! But I tend to like other illustration styles and a bit more grim demeanor from my Beholders (they don't know what love is!).

I wonder why a lot of the LGBTQIA+ illustrations go with such a style, or is it that everyone would get highly uncomfortable if we had Frank Frazetta or Brom illustrations that had a strong LGBTQIA+ theme?

Well, that's not the only time Beholders have been depicted as "cute".

Dragon #156, May 1990

Spoiler

But I agree I'm not in favor of that X picture's style.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, that's not the only time Beholders have been depicted as "cute".

Dragon #156, May 1990

Spoiler

View attachment 420270

But I agree I'm not in favor of that X picture's style.

Hawt. Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. Along with dark moon abbey.

 

[môrgondír]

If the perception was that the game being sold (i.e. the product) was at one time, or at varying times in its history, deliberately exclusionary, then is it currently the case that the new branding/artwork/marketing has made significant inroads to mitigating that perception?

Has the perception 'moved forward' (implicitly or explicitly) along a mutli-step path: 'You're not welcome here' -> 'You're not unwelcome here' -> 'You are welcome here' -- presumably capturing a larger market share with each step due to the change(s) in messaging/marketing?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If the perception was that the game being sold (i.e. the product) was at one time, or at varying times in its history, deliberately exclusionary, then is it currently the case that the new branding/artwork/marketing has made significant inroads to mitigating that perception?

Has the perception 'moved forward' (implicitly or explicitly) along a mutli-step path: 'You're not welcome here' -> 'You're not unwelcome here' -> 'You are welcome here' -- presumably capturing a larger market share with each step due to the change(s) in messaging/marketing?

I don't know if the marketing is responsible for it, or if it's Critical Role, or Vampire: The Masquerade, or something else, but the RPG scene is extremely popular with young people, LGBT people and -- to a greater extent than it's ever been -- people of color.

I know marketers would love to take credit for big changes in a customer base, but I suspect it's a lot of things.