D&D General Weapons should break left and right

[AlViking]

Sorry, you're playing AD&D, what is a "Ring Slot"? Those don't exist in AD&D.

But, yes, @Mustrum_Ridcully gets the point. The broom/boots aren't the problem. Just an easy example. But, instead of focusing on the actual problem - players always choosing the most boring, prosaic choice - some folks insist on relitigating the example, over and over again.

The solution, IMO, is to simply ban all DMG magic items. I can see that's what I'm likely going to do in my next campaign. You can buy/make whatever item you like, but, it will not come from the DMG. At least then magic items will have the tiniest bit of flavor.

I don't think it's boring to allow people to enjoy their character even if that includes getting items you find boring. Nobody is dismissing anything, we just disagree that it's a problem.

If you want to make custom items have fun with it. I don't see the need. I have my solutions that worked for me and my players. That includes some restrictions here and there along with lower level of wealth and magic overall than some other campaigns.

Do what works for you and I'll do the same. Just don't assume that anyone sees the same problem as you.

 

[AlViking]

LOL That broom gang sounds awesome.

And yeah, I've never seen a Broom of Flying purchased, either. I've seen lots of Boots of Flying purchased in those games that allow magic item buying. And the occasional Flying Rug.

I was in a campaign with a guy who wanted to ride a broom while using a shield and casting spells with somatic components or attacking with a weapon. The DM saud no. Had another asking about putting stirrups on ao they could use a bow, although they may have gotten the idea from critical roll.

It's fine if if you want people on brooms fighting with no penalties if it's what everyone (including the DM) wants. If I didn't think the idea was too over the top for my taste, I'd buy a broom for my character and add on a special saddle harness and get hands free flying 24x7 myself. It's a logical step to take given the description of how the broom works. It's just not the game style I want.

 

[Staffan]

I think that from an actual physics perspective, the problem with hands-free brooms is that they don't have any stability. With a horse, a saddle and stirrups are immensely helpful because the horse itself usually isn't going to just roll over and the center of gravity of rider + horse is going to be well within the horse's body. The broom on the other hand only weighs a couple of pounds, so the center of gravity will be somewhere in the rider's body, making the whole system unstable. And adding a saddle and stirrups to this isn't going to change anything – a bike doesn't become stable because it has a saddle, it becomes stable because the rotating wheels create a gyroscopic effect (which is why you can't really balance on a non-moving bike).

So unless you have some form of contraption like a keel or gyroscopic stabilizers or things like that on your broom, hands-free flight is going to require some steep Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.

That's part of why modern witches use vacuum cleaners instead where you stand upright. Much more stable because it goes along with the body's own balance.

 

[Lanefan]

It's all relative.

Broom of Flying: No limit on usage, can send it up to a mile away and summon it on demand. Fly speed of 50 if carrying 200 pounds or less, after that speed is 30. There is no upper limit on weight it can carry. Attach this thing to a boat and you have a flying ship. It's an uncommon item, no attunement.

A few of those elements are new to me and given their addition, I can see why you'd think it overpowered.

I'm fine with no limit on usage, it having a decent flight speed, and no attunement.

I'm not so keen on having it operate remotely - I mean, even Harry Potter has to use a summoning spell to bring his broom to him - nor it being as common as they are (I'd prefer they be rare, and thus special if-when you come across one).

And it has to have an upper weight and-or bulk limit on what it can carry. I'm fine with someone flying on a broom tied to a becalmed ship to slowly tow the ship along through the water, but there's no way in hell a broom should be able to get a ship into the air.

Winged Boots: has 4 charges, regain 1d4 expended charges daily at dawn. Takes an action and 1 charge to gain Fly Speed of 30 feet for 1 hour. Also uncommon but requires attunement.

Any transportation device (winged boots, bat-wings, boots of speed, enchanted horsehoes, etc.) that I can't use all day long isn't of interest to me as player; mostly because if I'm buying or claiming such an item for any character I'm almost certainly intending to use it mostly for long-range travel.

And none of them should need attunement.

 

[Lanefan]

Sorry, you're playing AD&D, what is a "Ring Slot"? Those don't exist in AD&D.

3e merely formalized and named a concept that had been around since day one: that you could only wear two magic rings at a time, one on each hand.

 

[Lanefan]

I think that from an actual physics perspective, the problem with hands-free brooms is that they don't have any stability. With a horse, a saddle and stirrups are immensely helpful because the horse itself usually isn't going to just roll over and the center of gravity of rider + horse is going to be well within the horse's body. The broom on the other hand only weighs a couple of pounds, so the center of gravity will be somewhere in the rider's body, making the whole system unstable. And adding a saddle and stirrups to this isn't going to change anything – a bike doesn't become stable because it has a saddle, it becomes stable because the rotating wheels create a gyroscopic effect (which is why you can't really balance on a non-moving bike).

So unless you have some form of contraption like a keel or gyroscopic stabilizers or things like that on your broom, hands-free flight is going to require some steep Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.

If brooms in fact no longer have a weight limit, slapping a lead keel on one side is the obvious solution. Failing that, hanging a keel from the broom with stout rope works, though it makes takeoff and landing more awkward.

That's part of why modern witches use vacuum cleaners instead where you stand upright. Much more stable because it goes along with the body's own balance.

Next phase in this evolution: Tenser's Floating Disc becomes Tenser's Flying Roomba.

 

[Hussar]

I don't think it's boring to allow people to enjoy their character even if that includes getting items you find boring. Nobody is dismissing anything, we just disagree that it's a problem.

If you want to make custom items have fun with it. I don't see the need. I have my solutions that worked for me and my players. That includes some restrictions here and there along with lower level of wealth and magic overall than some other campaigns.

Do what works for you and I'll do the same. Just don't assume that anyone sees the same problem as you.

So, why are you arguing with me then? I prefaced EVERYTHING I posted with what I was going to do in my game. At no point did I ever talk about anyone else's game. If you don't see the problem, fair enough. I DO see a problem. So, what are you trying to convince me of? That I'm mistaken, and that the problem doesn't exist? How is that not telling me how to run my game? The very thing you've repeatedly complained about.

If you're not actually engaging with anything I've brought up, what's the point?

 

[Hussar]

3e merely formalized and named a concept that had been around since day one: that you could only wear two magic rings at a time, one on each hand.

Really? That was never a thing in AD&D when I played it. Never saw a limitation on 2 rings before. That was a totally new idea in 3e.

 

[James Gasik]

The only time I think I've ever seen a Broom of Flying in play was back when I played in AL. The party Rogue had gotten one somehow (I think it was Storm King's Thunder, where the DM is allowed to roll randomly for treasure) and was firing their shortbow while flying about.

Someone even asked how that was possible, but given that it was Adventure League, the DM was loath to try and make a ruling beyond the written text.

I'd forgotten about it, but last year I created this in a game I was running as a "fixed" version of the Broom:

Witches' Ride: this simple wooden broom is, in fact, a truly wonderful item. By seating themselves on it, a creature gains a fly speed of 30 ft.. If the rider wishes to take the Dash Action, or maintain an altitude above 20 ft., they must make a DC 12 Dexterity check or they will fall off the broom (causing it to fall gently to the ground- they will likely not be so lucky). A character can gain Vehicle proficiency with the Witches' Ride, allowing them to add their Proficiency Bonus to these Dexterity checks.

 

[James Gasik]

A few of those elements are new to me and given their addition, I can see why you'd think it overpowered.

I'm fine with no limit on usage, it having a decent flight speed, and no attunement.

I'm not so keen on having it operate remotely - I mean, even Harry Potter has to use a summoning spell to bring his broom to him - nor it being as common as they are (I'd prefer they be rare, and thus special if-when you come across one).

Interestingly, this is a feature of the AD&D version of the Broom: