D&D 5E (2024) Breaking The Eldritch Knight (Eberron)

[Zardnaar]

So ive been keeping track of an Eldritch Knight I would play. Something new has been added to the equation however.

Race Human
Origin: Custom or 5.0
Origin Feats. Mark of the Storm, Magic Initiate:druid.

Pick shillelagh, guidance whatever you like (absorb elements?)
Class. Fighter:Eldritch Knight.
Ability scores. : 17 intelligence, 16 dexterity
Weapon Mastery: Prone.
Feats. All boosting Intelligence
4: Warcaster.
6. Potent Dragonmark
8. Fae Touched. Pick hex.

You can swap 6 and 8 around perhaps.

Arcane focus Quaterstaff.

At level 7 you can use true strike. And cast conjure Minor Elementals 1/short rest. And shillelagh is a d10 weapon.

1d10+7+2d8 base damage. True strike another 1d6.

CME+action surge.
1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8, 1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8
You're proficient in con saves and have warcaster. Arcane focus and warcaster you've got hands free casting.

Playable from level one, no screwing around with a bad Valor bard theory craft builds. Switches on early.

At 11 you get 3rd attack, 1d12 damage and CME is 3d8 (nerfed) or 4d8 (pre nerf). True strike 2d6.

Action surge
1d12+7+3d8+2d6 ×2 68 avg
1d12+7×3d8 x4 x4 108 avg

Damage potential average 176. 88 without action surge.

If crafting is allowed get a vicious quarterstaff. Its another 42 damage.

Your also knocking stuff prone. Advantage to hit.

At range probably use a shortbow. CME and true strike apply at range as well.

 

[Tessarael]

I had not realized how much they improved Vicious Weapon in D&D 2024. +2d6 damage of the weapon's damage type is very good, better than Flame Tongue, as Fire Resistance is more common for creatures than magic bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing resistance.

For comparison, at most what damage can say a level 11 Fighter Battlemaster do with and without Action Surge?

Let's assume a Vicious Greatsword so 4d6 damage, Strength 20 giving +5 damage, with the Great Weapon Master feat for an additional +4 damage per attack. For Fighting Style select Great Weapon Fighting which across those 4d6 gives on average +2 damage. Battlemaster's superiority die improves to d10 at Fighter level 10, and I'll assume this is used to boost damage once on the regular Attack action and again on the Action Surge. And I'll assume that an additional Bonus Action attack can be made, either due to scoring a critical hit or taking down an opponent, for 7 attacks in total with Action Surge. If the Fighter's mage friend casts Haste on him, or he drinks a Potion of Haste, he can increase this to 8 attacks. So with 8 attacks, assuming that they all hit, no critical hits, we have 8x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + 2d10 for Battlemaster maneuvers = 211 damage on average with Action Surge; or 5x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + d10 for Battlemaster maneuver = 130.5 damage on average without Action Surge. (On top of that, Hex boosts those to average damage of 239 and 148 respectively, but it comes at the cost of using a Bonus Action to do so.) Without Haste, it is an average of 175 with Action Surge and 100 without Action Surge.

Zardnaar, where's the +7 from in your damage calculations? I assume Intelligence 20 for +5 damage and a +2 weapon? I wouldn't allow both a +2 weapon and +2d6 for Vicious, pick one, not both.

I think the damage that your proposed build is doing is excessive, and I wouldn't allow it as DM as it breaks the damage scaling curve for D&D and will overshadow other players (unless everyone min/maxes like this, in which case I'd still say, "No, go and have fun in a character build arena!"). The big problem is the damage riders: +2d6 from Vicious Weapon, +3d8 from Conjure Minor Elementals, and +2d6 when you use True Strike. If these overlap (i.e., pick the biggest, so +3d8) instead of stacking (+3d8 +2d6 + 2d6), then the game balance issue is solved. An alternate fix is to limit how many hits Conjure Minor Elementals can boost the damage on per turn - I'd limit it to 2 or 3 hits maximum.

With damage rider stacking disallowed, your build's damage output is reduced to the following 1d12 + 5 INT + 3 magic weapon + 2 Dueling + 3d8 CME = 30 on average with no criticals; for an average of 180 with Action Surge, or 90 without it - that's much more reasonable. A Potion of Speed would boost that to 210 with Action Surge, and 120 without Action Surge. With Polearm Master at level 12, that improves further to 240 and 150 respectively, as you're making an additional Bonus Action attack with quarterstaff. (Edit: I have now included the +2 damage bonus for Dueling fighting style, added the effects of a Potion of Speed, and Polearm Master.)

 

[Zardnaar]

I had not realized how much they improved Vicious Weapon in D&D 2024. +2d6 damage of the weapon's damage type is very good, better than Flame Tongue, as Fire Resistance is more common for creatures than magic bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing resistance.

For comparison, at most what damage can say a level 11 Fighter Battlemaster do with and without Action Surge?

Let's assume a Vicious Greatsword so 4d6 damage, Strength 20 giving +5 damage, with the Great Weapon Master feat for an additional +4 damage per attack. For Fighting Style select Great Weapon Fighting which across those 4d6 gives on average +2 damage. Battlemaster's superiority die improves to d10 at Fighter level 10, and I'll assume this is used to boost damage once on the regular Attack action and again on the Action Surge. And I'll assume that an additional Bonus Action attack can be made, either due to scoring a critical hit or taking down an opponent, for 7 attacks in total with Action Surge. If the Fighter's mage friend casts Haste on him, or he drinks a Potion of Haste, he can increase this to 8 attacks. So with 8 attacks, assuming that they all hit, no critical hits, we have 8x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + 2d10 for Battlemaster maneuvers = 211 damage on average with Action Surge; or 5x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + d10 for Battlemaster maneuver = 130.5 damage on average without Action Surge. (On top of that, Hex boosts those to average damage of 239 and 148 respectively, but it comes at the cost of using a Bonus Action to do so.) Without Haste, it is an average of 175 with Action Surge and 100 without Action Surge.

Zardnaar, where's the +7 from in your damage calculations? I assume Intelligence 20 for +5 damage and a +2 weapon? I wouldn't allow both a +2 weapon and +2d6 for Vicious, pick one, not both.

I think the damage that your proposed build is doing is excessive, and I wouldn't allow it as DM as it breaks the damage scaling curve for D&D and will overshadow other players (unless everyone min/maxes like this, in which case I'd still say, "No, go and have fun in a character build arena!"). The big problem is the damage riders: +2d6 from Vicious Weapon, +3d8 from Conjure Minor Elementals, and +2d6 when you use True Strike. If these overlap (i.e., pick the biggest, so +3d8) instead of stacking (+3d8 +2d6 + 2d6), then the game balance issue is solved. An alternate fix is to limit how many hits Conjure Minor Elementals can boost the damage on per turn - I'd limit it to 2 or 3 hits maximum.

With damage rider stacking disallowed, your build's damage output is reduced to the following 1d12 + 5 INT + 3 magic weapon + 3d8 CME = 28 on average with no criticals; for an average of 168 with Action Surge, or 84 without it - that's much more reasonable.

+2 is duelist weapon style.

Basically you're getting CME on a fighter without 7 levels of druid or wizard or 10 levels of bard.

 

[FrogReaver]

So ive been keeping track of an Eldritch Knight I would play. Something new has been added to the equation however.

Race Human
Origin: Custom or 5.0
Origin Feats. Mark of the Storm, Magic Initiate:druid.

Pick shillelagh, guidance whatever you like (absorb elements?)
Class. Fighter:Eldritch Knight.
Ability scores. : 17 intelligence, 16 dexterity
Weapon Mastery: Prone.
Feats. All boosting Intelligence
4: Warcaster.
6. Potent Dragonmark
8. Fae Touched. Pick hex.

You can swap 6 and 8 around perhaps.

Arcane focus Quaterstaff.

At level 7 you can use true strike. And cast conjure Minor Elementals 1/short rest. And shillelagh is a d10 weapon.

1d10+7+2d8 base damage. True strike another 1d6.

CME+action surge.
1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8, 1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8
You're proficient in con saves and have warcaster. Arcane focus and warcaster you've got hands free casting.

Playable from level one, no screwing around with a bad Valor bard theory craft builds. Switches on early.

At 11 you get 3rd attack, 1d12 damage and CME is 3d8 (nerfed) or 4d8 (pre nerf). True strike 2d6.

Action surge
1d12+7+3d8+2d6 ×2 68 avg
1d12+7×3d8 x4 x4 108 avg

Damage potential average 176. 88 without action surge.

If crafting is allowed get a vicious quarterstaff. Its another 42 damage.

Your also knocking stuff prone. Advantage to hit.

At range probably use a shortbow. CME and true strike apply at range as well.

Seems fairly lackluster before level 7?

 

[Zardnaar]

Seems fairly lackluster before level 7?

Maybe. Thinking of hex at 4 or 6. You get a one handed d10 weapon at 5th.

First 4 levels thinking about a rapier.

 

[Horwath]

If going dex path, might invest in CE later on(12th level), you can keep the shield or just use a cantrip for 3d10 damage as ranged option.

also problem with CME, can you count on short rests being available?
bight boil down to once per day combo...



Off-topic, vicious weapon should be default magic weapon:
instead of +X to attack and damage, you would get +Xd6 damage only.
Uncommon: +1d6
rare: +2d6
very rare: +3d6
legendary: +4d6

 

[Zardnaar]

If going dex path, might invest in CE later on(12th level), you can keep the shield or just use a cantrip for 3d10 damage as ranged option.

also problem with CME, can you count on short rests being available?
bight boil down to once per day combo...



Off-topic, vicious weapon should be default magic weapon:
instead of +X to attack and damage, you would get +Xd6 damage only.
Uncommon: +1d6
rare: +2d6
very rare: +3d6
legendary: +4d6

Think you can probably count on 1 at least. Prayer of healing also grants one.

 

[Horwath]

maybe at 13th level, get a level of paladin or some other way to get Divine favor, it's better than Hex/HM as it does not use Conc and uses only 1 Bonus action per fight.

 

[Zardnaar]

maybe at 13th level, get a level of paladin or some other way to get Divine favor, it's better than Hex/HM as it does not use Conc and uses only 1 Bonus action per fight.

Hmmm I have a custom feat....