D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[Zardnaar]

Again

It's really just the defenses.

They really low balled monster defenses in 2014.

Low balled them in 2024 as well

 

[Minigiant]

few things to this:

1 - most "If we don't stop X, the world as we know it will end" style adventures are - or work much better when - bespoke to the specific setting and campaign they appear in. The best a generic adventure of that style can hope to do is give some DMs some ideas that can then be molded into their own campaigns; and if the adventure isn't generic the DM then has to build a lot of the campaign around it

TV shows and movie series tend to be able to do this in longer form than just the very end part. It's just a clock. You just don't have to make it 10 minutes to midnight.

The walking engine of destruction can walk slowly. The mad wizard still need the materials for the spell. The mad Titan still needs to collect the stones magic equipment.

The actual beauty of D&D is that it comes with an inherit excuse for why when traveling around searching for the big threat you can run into other strong threats as well via the many planes that D&D offers.

And that's just one style. You can do high level domain play, free high level diplomacy play, or High level plane hopping where you just up average level of the environment.

2 - these adventures work fine as capstone "this is the climax - and end - of the campaign" pieces but are of limited use at best for campaigns intended to continue open-ended or indefinitely; you can only save the world so many times before it becomes old hat. This cuts into the projected market for these adventures

It doesn't have to be a capstone.

The issue is high level play is not linear. Around mid level in D&D is where players go from being driven to getting a hold of the steering wheel


You can no longer write a simple chapter by chapter book and you are more likely writing description of various areas and the dangers there or description of factions and how they move on their own. Closer to an setting book than an adventure book

The only easy way to avoid that is to make the adventure book a description of a entire mission where actual beats and plans of the mission are already planned out by even stronger beings. And that's a heavy and hard opt in for sales

 

[Lanefan]

TV shows and movie series tend to be able to do this in longer form than just the very end part. It's just a clock. You just don't have to make it 10 minutes to midnight.

The walking engine of destruction can walk slowly. The mad wizard still need the materials for the spell. The mad Titan still needs to collect the stones magic equipment.

Yes, that's the buildup and foreshadowing piece I'm talking about. Your end-stage save-the-world adventure isn't going to include that stuff properly unless it builds in the whole campaign that came before it (i.e. it's a whole adventure path rather than just one adventure), meaning it's left up to the DM to provide that foreshadowing - and that ain't gonna happen if she's been running the game for two years and your adventure just released last week.

It doesn't have to be a capstone.

If it isn't you quickly run the risk of "Ho hum, we just saved the world again. Third time this year? Or was it the fourth?".

I'm running into this in my own campaign right now. They've more or less got to the "save the world" sort of level, and it's tough to come up with more grounded adventures that aren't just saving the world over and over again.

The issue is high level play is not linear. Around mid level in D&D is where players go from being driven to getting a hold of the steering wheel

Agreed, if one has the right sort of players.

You can no longer write a simple chapter by chapter book and you are more likely writing description of various areas and the dangers there or description of factions and how they move on their own. Closer to an setting book than an adventure book

True, though this leaves the DM doing the hard work which an adventure module is in theory supposed to be doing for her. By high level she already has a well-established setting (one hopes!) and doesn't need a setting book*. What she needs is the actual adventure designs - maps, monsters, NPCs, treasures, plots, etc.

* - exception: if the campaign is starting at very high level thus this is its first adventure, the setting info would be quite handy.

The only easy way to avoid that is to make the adventure book a description of a entire mission where actual beats and plans of the mission are already planned out by even stronger beings. And that's a heavy and hard opt in for sales

Hard opt-in for the players too, as that probably couldn't be run as anything but a straight railroad.

 

[Minigiant]

True, though this leaves the DM doing the hard work which an adventure module is in theory supposed to be doing for her. By high level she already has a well-established setting (one hopes!) and doesn't need a setting book*. What she needs is the actual adventure designs - maps, monsters, NPCs, treasures, plots, etc.

It's not a setting book. It's more like setting book than an adventure book but it's still an adventure book.

For example, I could see a high level book about cults. You take the 4 cults of the MM and provide maps, monsters, motivations, magic spells, and magic items for each

• Aberrant cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Cathedral of Crabs dungeon
  • Crabgore the Pinchinstor
• Death cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Twisted Necropolis dungeon
  • The Life Sipper
• Elemental cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Portal to the Four Ways dungeon
  • Magnaros, Fire and Earth
  • Freezocan, Aire and Water
• Infernal cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monster
  • Mount Fiendhole dungeo
  • Imyp the Canbion Blademaster

And you have 4 bosses ready to X sessions

 

[Zardnaar]

It's not a setting book. It's more like setting book than an adventure book but it's still an adventure book.

For example, I could see a high level book about cults. You take the 4 cults of the MM and provide maps, monsters, motivations, magic spells, and magic items for each

• Aberrant cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Cathedral of Crabs dungeon
  • Crabgore the Pinchinstor
• Death cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Twisted Necropolis dungeon
  • The Life Sipper
• Elemental cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monsters
  • Portal to the Four Ways dungeon
  • Magnaros, Fire and Earth
  • Freezocan, Aire and Water
• Infernal cult
  • Cult Motivations
  • Cult NPCs
  • Summoned Monster
  • Mount Fiendhole dungeo
  • Imyp the Canbion Blademaster

And you have 4 bosses ready to X sessions

I used cultists a lot. Death for Myrkul. Generic ones for Bane/Bhaal

 

[Distracted DM]

Greater magic resistance, +3 AC, double hp.

Again

It's really just the defenses.

They really low balled monster defenses in 2014.

Low balled them in 2024 as well

I don't know that I agree higher defenses is the answer, or rather the only answer. Mearls suggested a roughly 35% increase to damage and 35% decrease to HP for most if not all enemies, which makes things a lot more tense (I believe that's what he ended up doing for his home games). I've tried it, it works, it's just a pain to implement in entirety in a VTT.
For enemies that're supposed be a significant challenge, I think added defenses are good as well

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't know that I agree higher defenses is the answer, or rather the only answer. Mearls suggested a roughly 35% increase to damage and 35% decrease to HP for most if not all enemies, which makes things a lot more tense (I believe that's what he ended up doing for his home games). I've tried it, it works, it's just a pain to implement in entirety in a VTT.
For enemies that're supposed be a significant challenge, I think added defenses are good as well

The ingredients are there.
. Players like high powered PC s it seems. 300 hp might look impressive but its not when 1 PC can nova off for 100-150 damage.

If you inflated hp and tweak encounter design its back to longer combats.

I could do it but 9 encounters a day each with 1000+hp adds up. Fodder dies to emanations and CR 2-4 can have 50-90 hp each .

 

[Distracted DM]

The ingredients are there.
. Players like high powered PC s it seems. 300 hp might look impressive but its not when 1 PC can nova off for 100-150 damage.

If you inflated hp and tweak encounter design its back to longer combats.

I could do it but 9 encounters a day each with 1000+hp adds up. Fodder dies to emanations and CR 2-4 can have 50-90 hp each .

That's the problem I have with just adding numbers to everything, adding power to both sides of the board, rather than paring them back. You're just bloating stuff up- whether it's time per combat, time per turn, time just calculating BS, etc.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't know that I agree higher defenses is the answer, or rather the only answer. Mearls suggested a roughly 35% increase to damage and 35% decrease to HP for most if not all enemies, which makes things a lot more tense (I believe that's what he ended up doing for his home games). I've tried it, it works, it's just a pain to implement in entirety in a VTT.
For enemies that're supposed be a significant challenge, I think added defenses are good as well

Not HP.

Save bonus. Monsters in 2014 have terrible saving throw bonuses. They get better in 2024 as a stealth fix.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's the problem I have with just adding numbers to everything, adding power to both sides of the board, rather than paring them back. You're just bloating stuff up- whether it's time per combat, time per turn, time just calculating BS, etc.

Aware but its easier tgan rewriting the classes