Will there ever be new editions of the major systems?

[Jahydin]

Do I understand this correctly and the WotC years were the deviation and 6e will get closer to 1e/2e again? I thought 5e was already the step back towards the original design, just without abandoning everything they learned in the meantime. Not really expecting them to get much closer to 1e/2e than that

AD&D/BX to me is the heart and soul of D&D (and I feel there should still be two versions of D&D, storytelling focused and a tactical focused IMO). The deviation started with 2e and really got away when the "2.5e" material started to come out. It cycled back with 3e; the slogan even being "Back to the Dungeon!". 4e was the deviation, then cycled back with 5e. After about 5 years, the game began to deviate again. With 5.24e, the game is wildly different (especially aesthetically).

As to whether there will be a new edition, there always was one after sales slumped, I don’t think this cycle will end and I don’t think sales will never slow down either. Forever is a long time

Which leads to "6e". I think the smartest move would be a "return to form" again. How much so? That I'm not sure, but I'd like to think closer to AD&D then even 5e was. Any evidence? Nope, just gut feeling. It's fun to speculate though and I'm okay with being wrong!

BTW, none of this is coming from a place of nostalgia as I didn't really dig into AD&D until I had time during COVID!

 

[Jahydin]

To those of us who come of age in the TTRPG market of the '90s, it's pretty wild that White Wolf went from one of the two main branches of RPGs to an afterthought in less than a decade, but that's exactly what happened.

Any idea as to why?

For me, it was the drop in quality of the books. Those WoD era books were spectacular. I bought them just for the art and still have them on my shelf.

 

[Jahydin]

Like TSR in the 1970s, White Wolf had lightning in a bottle with Vampire. It was the right game, at the right time, in the right place. It's the only RPG I can think of other than D&D that's ever really become known in wider popular culture. But the World of Darkness just screams 1990s to me in a way that most fantasy settings don't scream 1970s or 80s to me. Even when taking account the hair on Elmore's fantasy art. Maybe being set a faux medieval setting makes for a somewhat timeless gaming experience.

Perfectly said! I think it really goes to show the benefit of drawing from outside experiences to create art rather than just drawing from preexisting products and ideas.

Something the anime industry could really benefit from...

 

[Staffan]

Any idea as to why?

For me, it was the drop in quality of the books. Those WoD era books were spectacular. I bought them just for the art and still have them on my shelf.

I think there were a couple of reasons, which probably overlap a fair bit.

The biggest was that they nuked their main product lines. Their Big Three (Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage) always had a vibe going of imminent ending, and they eventually published a set of three books (plus IIRC one for all the other lines) where that actually happened. This was then followed by the New World of Darkness which, while it certainly had some things going for it, never had the same appeal as the original WoD.

They were also producing a huge number of product lines, with varying levels of relation to one another as well as various levels of using the same rules. You had the World of Darkness with its original Big Five (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Wraith, and Changeling), followed by assorted other product lines (Hunter, Mummy, Demon, Kindred of the East, probably something I'm forgetting), some of which required another core book. You also had the three games in the Trinity Continuum: AeonTrinity, Aberrant, and Adventure!. There was Exalted, which tried to challenge D&D for the fantasy space (I remember they were doing a promotion where you could send them your PHB and they'd send you the Exalted core book). I'm guessing they were learning some of the same lessons as TSR did about splitting the customer base too many ways.

And eventually, the owners sold out to CCCP (the Icelandic company making Eve Online), who were flush with cash but pretty soon had to contract, and the RPG side were the ones suffering for it.

 

[Jahydin]

The biggest was that they nuked their main product lines. Their Big Three (Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage) always had a vibe going of imminent ending, and they eventually published a set of three books (plus IIRC one for all the other lines) where that actually happened. This was then followed by the New World of Darkness which, while it certainly had some things going for it, never had the same appeal as the original WoD.

I got into it with these:

Would that be the second WoD or first?

You also had the three games in the Trinity Continuum: AeonTrinity, Aberrant, and Adventure!.

Had to look these up since I've never heard of them. Seems Savage Worlds like in tone.

There was Exalted, which tried to challenge D&D for the fantasy space (I remember they were doing a promotion where you could send them your PHB and they'd send you the Exalted core book).

That is wild! Never knew that.

And eventually, the owners sold out to CCCP (the Icelandic company making Eve Online), who were flush with cash but pretty soon had to contract, and the RPG side were the ones suffering for it.

Or that, thanks for the info!

 

[Distracted DM]

Someone once said we'd see a DnD6e when Disney buys Hasbro- it was probably ~5 years ago that he said that. I still think that sounds about right

 

[MichaelSomething]

Perfectly said! I think it really goes to show the benefit of drawing from outside experiences to create art rather than just drawing from preexisting products and ideas.

Something the anime industry could really benefit from...

Indeed

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Given the differences between 2e, 3e, 4e and 5e D&D, those seem more like new games in many ways rather than new editions to me.

Yes, calling sequel games "editions" is one of the strangest things to me about the ttrpg industry. And then when something is actually just a new edition of an existing game (ie: 2024 D&D) you aren't supposed to call it a new edition.

 

[Staffan]

I got into it with these:
View attachment 424550
Would that be the second WoD or first?

That would be the second, now known as Chronicles of Darkness since Paradox has reanimated the original. The originals were Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Awakening, Wraith: The Oblivion, and Changeling: The Dreaming.

In the original version, each game was technically separate, though they could be used together without too much trouble. You'd need to make some judgment calls about how various supernatural powers interacted and stuff like that. With New World of Darkness, the basic rules were in a separate book and the different game lines all built on that common core. This is primarily seen in character creation. In Vampire: the Requiem (nWOD), you start by building a human, and then turn them into a vampire. In Vampire: the Masquerade, you just build a vampire right away.

 

[GrimCo]

Yes, but by the time of rebranding from nWoD to CoD, that game line was 10y old, and with rebrand, they did rules update. Not complete overhaul, more like errata, with new layout, editing and art.

As someone who never cared for big metaplot in original WoD, i quite liked 2004 nWoD. What also helped was streamlining mechanics which made easier to combine characters from different game lines. It was designed ground up to easy incorporate all the game lines into single game at the table. On the other hand oWoD, every game was for itself and it was tricky to balance them together at the same table, both power wise, but also thematically narrative, they didn't mesh that well.

As for new editions, i think yes, most popular games will have new editions. But i think it will probably be more in line with minor updates, some rules tweaks etc. Enough new to call it update, enough old to have some degree of backwards compatibility.

Problem with ttrpgs is once you buy it, you can use it forever. It doesn't break, it doesn't get obsolete and it gives you unlimited content. For business model that is based on single purchase, that means they need new edition every few years.