[WIR] The Lord of the Rings Trilogy

[Dannyalcatraz]

I gotta ask: what does [WIR] mean?

 

[billd91]

An interesting thing is that Treebeard in the books is already aware that Saruman's forces are deforesting the region to feed their war machine. From what I recall about the movie, this was something Treebeard was unaware of and tragically discovered firsthand.

Yeah, that's one of the Peter Jackson changes that didn't sit well with me in the Two Towers.

The first page has a grammatical error, having a single line at the beginning of the next paragraph right before a page break: "For some time the companions groped and crawled upon the ground." I don't know if this is present in other editions or is peculiar to my book.

I'm not sure what the grammatical error here would be. It's largely the same sentence in my version, just with crawled and groped reversed in position. I think it may be a layout error to leave an orphaned single line like that due to the page break, though. It's certainly not very good practice.

 

[Libertad]

I gotta ask: what does [WIR] mean?

It's short for "Where I Read."

it's different than a [Let's Read] in that it's a first-time experience with a book and thus not a review in the typical sense.

Yeah, that's one of the Peter Jackson changes that didn't sit well with me in the Two Towers.


I'm not sure what the grammatical error here would be. It's largely the same sentence in my version, just with crawled and groped reversed in position. I think it may be a layout error to leave an orphaned single line like that due to the page break, though. It's certainly not very good practice.

To be specific, it's an "orphan," where the first line of a paragraph appears at the bottom of the page. So it's less an outright error and something that is considered "poor form" when writing.

 

[Marc Radle]

A widow is a single word or short line that appears at the end of a paragraph but gets pushed to the top of the next page or column.

An orphan is a single word or short line of text at the beginning of a page or column, separated from the rest of its paragraph.

What you describe isn’t actually a grammatical error, it’s a typographical error by the publisher that happened during the layout of that particular version of the book.

 

[Dioltach]

Gandalf losing his clothes as part of the aftermath of his final fight with the balrog on the mountaintop is a rather funny explanation of how he got a new set of clothes. I can see why they'd keep that out of the films.

If I were doing a literary analysis of the scene, I'd say it's a fairly common death-and-rebirth thing. Plunging into darkness, clawing his way out and being delivered into the world naked and helpless. Gandalf doesn't lose his clothes so he can take up white garb, he takes up white garb to symbolise that the old Gandalf is gone, and this is Gandalf 2.0, new and improved.

 

[Mannahnin]

Also, I am not sure it is a put-down, none of the hobbits seem put-out by it (though sometimes they will correct, other times they use it to clarify who/what they are - though in the later books).

I guess I forgot its use earlier in the book. As for put-down, it always came off as "half in stature" vibewise and from what I vaguely remember in regards to cultural osmosis, even if the hobbit characters don't take offense overtly to its use.

My recollection is that it's a colloquialism from Gondor, where they have no personal experience with the Hobbit culture. Halfling is a descriptive term for the Hobbits, used by a people who don't actually interact with them. I don't think it has a dismissive tone in the books; I think that may be carryover from line readings in the movies- Sean Bean's and the orcs'. They do tend to see the Hobbits as weaker, due to being diminutive, but the term is descriptive rather than pejorative.

Book 3, Chapter 3: the Uruk-hai
Merry must be really strong to cut off a bunch of orc hands and arms. Given how easily so many orcs die in the series, it does make me wonder how they got stereotyped as buff, strong dudes in later fantasy media.

In Tolkien Orc is really a synonym for Goblin, and there's a range in how big or strong they are. IME there was a goodly range of artists interpretations of them in the 70s and 80s, with many depicting them a bit smaller, a better match for the Dwarves in The Hobbit. D&D and Warhammer after it more strictly categorized Goblins as the smaller, weaker ones, and Orcs as the more man-sized, stronger ones. And it wasn't until the 90s that GW's Orcs and World of Warcraft's (based on GW's) got increasingly big and beefy to make them more dramatic and scary in the more visual mediums of miniatures and video games.

An interesting thing is that Treebeard in the books is already aware that Saruman's forces are deforesting the region to feed their war machine. From what I recall about the movie, this was something Treebeard was unaware of and tragically discovered firsthand.

Yep. It's another place where the script of the Jackson movies change things to add surprise and suspense. When you read the books and watch the movies relatively close together, this pattern jumps out a lot. Building in more moments of surprise and even jump scares to keep the energy high and dynamic for film audiences.

1. So Saruman sacrificed the white robes for the rainbow robes, and Gandalf traded in his grey robes for white, saying that he's like "Saruman as he should've been." I could be reading into this, but it makes me wonder if there's some kind of title and hierarchy among wizards, with Saruman "demoted" for his betrayal. Rr the changing of clothes colors representing personality shifts. Or maybe it's just metaphorical.

It's both. The White Wizard is indeed chief of the order. Once Saruman abdicates his position/responsibility/authority, the way is open for the sent-back Gandalf to take over that role.

1. In regards to the aftermath of his descent with the Balrog, Gandalf speaking of "nameless things gnawing at the world" that even Sauron doesn't know about brings to mind the Nordic tale of Nidhoggr, the dragon who eats the roots of the World-Tree. I don't know if Tolkien was explicitly drawing upon that example, or merely left to the imagination of undiscovered horrors.

Both, IMO.

Gandalf losing his clothes as part of the aftermath of his final fight with the balrog on the mountaintop is a rather funny explanation of how he got a new set of clothes. I can see why they'd keep that out of the films.

If I were doing a literary analysis of the scene, I'd say it's a fairly common death-and-rebirth thing. Plunging into darkness, clawing his way out and being delivered into the world naked and helpless. Gandalf doesn't lose his clothes so he can take up white garb, he takes up white garb to symbolise that the old Gandalf is gone, and this is Gandalf 2.0, new and improved.

Yep.

 

[Nikosandros]

It's both. The White Wizard is indeed chief of the order. Once Saruman abdicates his position/responsibility/authority, the way is open for the sent-back Gandalf to take over that role.

Yes, Gandalf the White is the new chief of the Order and he can and does cast out Saruman for his treason. He's also a new reincarnation less restrained and more open in the use of his power.

 

[Dioltach]

My recollection is that it's a colloquialism from Gondor, where they have no personal experience with the Hobbit culture. Halfling is a descriptive term for the Hobbits, used by a people who don't actually interact with them. I don't think it has a dismissive tone in the books; I think that may be carryover from line readings in the movies- Sean Bean's and the orcs'. They do tend to see the Hobbits as weaker, due to being diminutive, but the term is descriptive rather than pejorative.

"Halfling" is used a lot in Pippin's chapters in Gondor, and it doesn't seem to carry any negative connotations whatsoever.

 

[billd91]

Yes, Gandalf the White is the new chief of the Order and he can and does cast out Saruman for his treason. He's also a new reincarnation less restrained and more open in the use of his power.

I think being less restrained and more open in the use of his power probably has less to do with being a new reincarnation or even being promoted to the white robes. Rather, this is his time. The job he was sent to do is coming to a climax, for good or bad, and the time for the subtlety he used to practice is gone.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yes, Gandalf the White is the new chief of the Order and he can and does cast out Saruman for his treason. He's also a new reincarnation less restrained and more open in the use of his power.

I think being less restrained and more open in the use of his power probably has less to do with being a new reincarnation or even being promoted to the white robes. Rather, this is his time. The job he was sent to do is coming to a climax, for good or bad, and the time for the subtlety he used to practice is gone.

It's both. It's the job he was sent back to do AS The White. His original task and role ended with his prior life, and with Saruman corrupted by evil he was sent back to be "Saruman as he should have been." I think you're right about the climax, though. The war is coming to a head, and it is less the time for the wise, gentle counsellor he was, and more the time for the commanding, forthright champion of light he was sent back as.