D&D 5E (2014) Is Point Buy Balanced?

[CleverNickName]

Alternatively, the roller rolls and accepts that that might put them in a position that is unbalanced, and the person who doesn't want to roll...doesn't roll.

If the roller's expectation is "I will roll, and everyone else will to", then their position was always one hostile to the idea of compromise in the first place. It's not the point-buyer's fault that the roller wants to control the entire game, forcing everyone to play the way they want, is it?

The rules give us three different methods to generate stats...everything else is a house-rule. There isn't a rule that tell us which method is "best," and there's no rule that says all players must use the same method.

 

[Maxperson]

Until you can explain what you gain from rolling that you can't get from somen variation of point buy other than 3 minutes of gambling, yes.

Increased realism.

1) You and I didn't have any control over our stat potential.

2) it's ludicrous to think that every PC in the world will coincidentally be born with 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for starting stats.

Point buy/array should be a default, but should be no more or less default than rolling.

 

[AlViking]

Increased realism.

1) You and I didn't have any control over our stat potential.

I don't give a fig about realism. It's a game. A game where you're playing characters that can someday be the best of the best, they are not the c-list team. I see no benefit to having AA players and C list players on the same team.

2) it's ludicrous to think that every PC in the world will coincidentally be born with 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for starting stats.

The array is just a simple default, we always use point buy.

Point buy/array should be a default, but should be no more or less default than rolling.

I disagree because it turns some people away from the game. Hardly the end of the world that we disagree.

 

[Maxperson]

Eh. People have been used to D&D forcing combat to one degree or another on every character for decades. I don't see it as intrinsically any worse to force some capability in other spheres.

I think folks should have some capability in other pillars, but I do not think that they should be able to participate(let alone equally) in every situation in every pillar.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I've played every incarnation of D&D since Basic, with the exception of 4e(I doubt 4e is the exception), and I have yet to see a rule that has hindered the fun for absolutely everyone who has played or ever will play with that rule. There is nothing that objectively hinders enjoyment in the rules. It's all subjective.

Poor choice of words on my part.

 

[Maxperson]

You can get more variety by creating a number of arrays from point buy and roll for which array you use. Some will start with a 15 as a high, some with a 13 (with 5e you get a +2 and a +1 to add for a 17 or 15 high number). But the 15 will have some pretty low numbers, the 14 will gave all numbers above average. Everything from 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 to 15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8.

You can't get more variety from point buy and arrays, since rolling can produce all of those plus more.

As far as being "realistic", realistically I view adventurers as potential professional athletes, you don't become a pro unless you're naturally gifted. Besides, its a fantasy game and most people in my experience don't want to run a character that is significantly less capable than the rest of the group. Of course if someone really wants to run a character that has a suboptimal score they don't have to spend all their points. If I'm running a game we all use point buy because it means there will be no winners or lovers in the dice roll lottery.

I've seen athletes that were dumb as a stump, super unwise, or both. I've also seen athletes with doctorates and who go on to become billionaires. Some athletes are strong, but not super agile. Others don't have great endurance.

I can tell you, though, what athletes don't all have. And that's 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for starting stats. They also didn't get to choose what their stats were from a list of arrays or point buy. They were the lucky ones who rolled decently well.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't give a fig about realism. It's a game. A game where you're playing characters that can someday be the best of the best, they are not the c-list team. I see no benefit to having AA players and C list players on the same team.

I don't say that you should giver a fig about it. You asked what it gives other than gambling. I told you.

There are enough of us who DO give a fig about realism that rolling should be out there as an EQUAL option to point buy/array.

I disagree because it turns some people away from the game.

You're going to need to show citations on that claim. You having the ability to point buy while I roll isn't much of a turn off that I can see. I'm sure there are probably a few who are turned away from the game by that, but I will bet that it's fewer than are turned away from the game by the violence of combats.

 

[Clint_L]

The rules give us three different methods to generate stats...everything else is a house-rule. There isn't a rule that tell us which method is "best," and there's no rule that says all players must use the same method.

There is not, though I think it’s probably best practice for most groups of people. Actually, standard array and point buy work together fine, but I’d be cautious about using rolls unless everyone was into it. And I would insist on the rolls being done together, very publically, at Sesssion 0, with each player taking their turn while the others watch.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

There is not, though I think it’s probably best practice for most groups of people. Actually, standard array and point buy work together fine, but I’d be cautious about using rolls unless everyone was into it. And I would insist on the rolls being done together, very publically, at Sesssion 0, with each player taking their turn while the others watch.

But then you can’t cheat

 

[AlViking]

You can't get more variety from point buy and arrays, since rolling can produce all of those plus more.

So? I didn't say you would get more variety from point buy, I said you could get a wide array.

I've seen athletes that were dumb as a stump, super unwise, or both. I've also seen athletes with doctorates and who go on to become billionaires. Some athletes are strong, but not super agile. Others don't have great endurance.

I don't care. I want every player to have the option to make a character as proficient at their chosen class as any other.

I can tell you, though, what athletes don't all have. And that's 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for starting stats. They also didn't get to choose what their stats were from a list of arrays or point buy. They were the lucky ones who rolled decently well.

I've seen tables where there was significant imbalance. Where if two people wanted to both play wizards, one would have started with a 20 intelligence, 18 dex and con, nothing lower than a 14. The player that the low end would have a 12 DC on their saves and start with 6 HP, base AC of 10. The high? DC 15, 10 HP, AC 14. As they level up, the wizard with the high values is free to do whatever they want with feats because their stats are high enough the way it is. The low end? They'll never ever catch up or be the best wizard possible.

It is a significant imbalance that adds nothing to the game as far as I'm concerned.