D&D 5E (2024) How I would do 6E.

[Minigiant]

Ah I see, I don’t hate it but why not just have stats that are -9 to +8 then and get rid of stat - 10?

If we kept the base stats I’d rather switch to a roll under stat system. Need a reflex save? Roll a d20 and get <=12 or <12, if that’s what you want. I think Vagabond does something like this.

Edit: ninja’d by the King

Because of the other uses.

A wizards Spell save would be their Intelligence score.

A Monk's Focus points would be her Wisdom score

A Fighter's jump distance would be his Strength score

A Ranger's speed bonus would be its Dexterity score

A barbarians Athletics check minimum could be their Strength score

A Rogues Reliable talent minimum result would be the score of the Skill chosen.

Score isn't useless. We just stopped using it.

 

[Horwath]

Because of the other uses.

A wizards Spell save would be their Intelligence score.

A Monk's Focus points would be her Wisdom score

A Fighter's jump distance would be his Strength score

A Ranger's speed bonus would be its Dexterity score

A barbarians Athletics check minimum could be their Strength score

A Rogues Reliable talent minimum result would be the score of the Skill chosen.

Score isn't useless. We just stopped using it.

all of that can be derived from modifiers.
there is no need to have both in game.
you only need bonuses, numbers are smaller and more intuitive.
scores are 1st edition dinosaurs that just refuse to get extinct.

 

[Minigiant]

all of that can be derived from modifiers.
there is no need to have both in game.
you only need bonuses, numbers are smaller and more intuitive.
scores are 1st edition dinosaurs that just refuse to get extinct.

It can.

5e proves it is not better.

8 + proficiency mod + ability mod or AC are not a good DC base vs 1d20 + proficiency mod + ability mod.

 

[Horwath]

It can.

5e proves it is not better.

8 + proficiency mod + ability mod or AC are not a good DC base vs 1d20 + proficiency mod + ability mod.

why not?
sure we can debate what expected success rate should be at a given level, but why is it not a good base?

 

[GrimCo]

I would split 6e in basic and advanced.

Basic would be 4-5 classes, with few simple options, you get them at levels 1-3 and that's it, they just scale with level. FE simple wizard - magic offense, magic defense, magic utility. Magic offense would be 1d8 single target/1d4 to two target then 2d8/2x1d8/4x1d4 at level 5 and so on. Cap at level 10. Defense would be similar, think combining shield with counterspell/dispell. Utility would be expanded use Prestidigitation mixed with Mage Hand. Skill lists also shortened - lore, survival, athleticism, social skill. Maybe one or two more, but keep it as broad as possible. Stat bonuses apply situationaly by DMs discretion and depending on what approach character takes.

Whay simple? It's for people that want easy and fast character creation, leveling and to avoid choice paralysis in combat.

Advanced - now you add subclasses, full vancian casting, combat manouvers a la Bo9S for martials, levels 11-20, skill specializations, feats, multiclassing rules etc. This is for people who like it more crunchy, more char op, more tactical, more choices. Basic has barebone class structures, advanced is module that adds complexity on top.

 

[Minigiant]

why not?
sure we can debate what expected success rate should be at a given level, but why is it not a good base?

Because the DC user is extremely favored over the roller

1) the DC user always adds their Proficiency modifiers​

The wizard always ads their Proficiency to their spell DC.

The fighter is unlikely to add their Proficiency modifiers to their Wisdom save.

So the DC user had a +2 to +6 favoritism on the roll from the start.

2) the DC user always adds their best Ability score modifiers​

The wizard always adds their Intelligence modifier to their spell DC.

The fighter always to add their Wisdom modifier modifiers to their Wisdom save.

Standard array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Or you can roll 4d6d1. Or you can buy up to 15. Then you add a +1 or +2.

The monster will have their DC based on their best score for a Bonus of +2 to +10.

The wizard always choose a high Intelligence for a starting modifie of +2 or +3. And it will grow to +5 or 6.

The fighter is likely to pick Wisdom as their 3rd or lower best score. So its a +1 and almost never grows.

So its a +1 vs anything from a +2 ro +6. Maybe a +10.

Altogether the DC user has a DC of 12 to 20+. Whereas the roller is rolling anything from -1 to +10.

Oops. Forgot.

3) the DC user always chooses the targeted save.​

Not using Con or Fort saves vs big monsters.

So really the DC user has a DC of 12 to 20+. Whereas the roller is rolling anything from -1 to +3.

Yeah buddy. Thats bad.

Now with abilty score.

The fighters 13 Wisdom is a +3 vs a

Mage Apprentice's Intelligence of 16 so DC 16.
Mages Intelligence of 17 so DC 17.
Archmage's Intelligence of 20 so DC 20.

Now you gotta chance.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I think Con should be folded into Str and renamed, it just does not get used often enough and is a tax for martials.

the problem i see with this is that CON is often almost as wanted for casters and if you combine it with STR then every caster who wants a decent concentration save or some extra HP also becomes a jacked bodybuilder in the process.

 

[Horwath]

Because the DC user is extremely favored over the roller

1) the DC user always adds their Proficiency modifiers​

The wizard always ads their Proficiency to their spell DC.

The fighter is unlikely to add their Proficiency modifiers to their Wisdom save.

So the DC user had a +2 to +6 favoritism on the roll from the start.

that is the point.
spell should land most of the time, except on most resistant targets.

but sure, I do agree that non proficient saves should get some bonuses to see improvements over levels.
half prof bonus maybe?

2) the DC user always adds their best Ability score modifiers​

The wizard always adds their Intelligence modifier to their spell DC.

working as intended.

The fighter always to add their Wisdom modifier modifiers to their Wisdom save.

Standard array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Or you can roll 4d6d1. Or you can buy up to 15. Then you add a +1 or +2.

The monster will have their DC based on their best score for a Bonus of +2 to +10.

The wizard always choose a high Intelligence for a starting modifie of +2 or +3. And it will grow to +5 or 6.

The fighter is likely to pick Wisdom as their 3rd or lower best score. So its a +1 and almost never grows.

So its a +1 vs anything from a +2 ro +6. Maybe a +10.

Altogether the DC user has a DC of 12 to 20+. Whereas the roller is rolling anything from -1 to +10.

I see no problem.
raise point buy pool for 5 or 6 points while keeping 15 max.
that will raise dump stats, maybe all to 12
maybe add array of 15,15,14,12,12,12, with +2/+1 that will go into 17,16,14,12,12,12.
primary stats will remain the same, while dump stats will have chance of a save.

Oops. Forgot.

3) the DC user always chooses the targeted save.​

Not using Con or Fort saves vs big monsters.

So really the DC user has a DC of 12 to 20+. Whereas the roller is rolling anything from -1 to +3.

Yeah buddy. Thats bad.

Now with abilty score.

The fighters 13 Wisdom is a +3 vs a

did you just change math on how ability modifier is derived from ability score?
you might be right. but still how does that help having ability scores in game?

Mage Apprentice's Intelligence of 16 so DC 16.
Mages Intelligence of 17 so DC 17.
Archmage's Intelligence of 20 so DC 20.

Now you gotta chance.

not much different from now
1st level wizard, 17 int, +2 prof
DC 13
mage?
11th level wizard with 20 int, +4 prof
DC 16
archmage
20th level wizard with 20 int
DC 21

you are better of now except in archmage case.

 

[Horwath]

the problem i see with this is that CON is often almost as wanted for casters and if you combine it with STR then every caster who wants a decent concentration save or some extra HP also becomes a jacked bodybuilder in the process.

delete Con from the game.

add +2 HP to classes per level.
Conc saves are based of casting stat.

all other Con saves are merged into STR saves.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Spells should provide less utility, especially at lower level. Cantips like create bonfire and light, as well as leveled spells like goodberry trivialize many non combat problems. Damage cantips should still be better than weapons for low level casters. A wizard who defaults to grabbing a crossbow is a lame experience.

i agree with the rest of your post but i think i'd go in the other direction here, IMO besides cantrips casters ought to have less offensive capabilities and focus more on utility, leave the combat to the martials, you bring a caster because of all the things magic can do that you can't ordinarily do, breath underwater, talk with animals, create portals, they'd keep some offensive capability but every damaging spell they'd have would in some form also be utility, wall of fire is field control, magic missile hits intangible enemies and so on.