Level Up (A5E) Quick question about heralds and paladin subclasses

[PauloR]

All paladin subclasses (at least the more recent ones) say that the character automatically have the oath spells prepared. The A5E subclasses seem to only add a theme or subset of spells to a paladin spell list. My question is actually in two parts:

1.Should I just add oath spells to my prepared spells, in which case A5e subclasses would be inferior options or just add them to the paladin spells list, as this seems to be the designers intent?

2.what is the reason to have the herald not follow the paladin model of always having the oath spells prepared? Do people with experience playing heralds feel.they have too few spells prepared?

Thanks in advance

 

[Tessarael]

Where do you see text that specifies that Herald archetypes add their Oath spells to those prepared? I don't see this in the A5E core rulebook, nor on the wiki for any sub-classes. Maybe some newer published archetypes do, but this is not the case in the others that I have scanned through.

It speeds up game play. Limiting the number of prepared spells for casters reduces the number of choices to be made in combat. For those like Clerics, Druids, and Heralds, they can change what spells they have prepared on a long rest, so there's still a strategic option to prepare different spells in expectation of what may happen next in a campaign. But at least that choice happens only once a long rest, rather than dithering mid-combat over such decisions.

In my experience having played various spell casters over the past few years, you don't really need that many core spells. The number that you can prepare is quite reasonable. Yes, it makes sense to swap out utility spells, but doing so on a long rest is usually not a major delay where needed. In a higher level campaign, if the DM permits it, you may want to consider buying or crafting some low level spell scrolls to have some variety / backup when you need some spell that is quite useful but only in particular circumstances.

 

[Morrus]

In my experience having played various spell casters over the past few years, you don't really need that many core spells.

In 40 years of gaming, I'd argue that most players use a half dozen spells all the time.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

All paladin subclasses (at least the more recent ones) say that the character automatically have the oath spells prepared. The A5E subclasses seem to only add a theme or subset of spells to a paladin spell list. My question is actually in two parts:

1.Should I just add oath spells to my prepared spells, in which case A5e subclasses would be inferior options or just add them to the paladin spells list, as this seems to be the designers intent?

2.what is the reason to have the herald not follow the paladin model of always having the oath spells prepared? Do people with experience playing heralds feel.they have too few spells prepared?

Thanks in advance

1. add them to the herald spell list. adding spells to your prepared list is baked into the paladin class, not its subclasses. the herald doesn't share it so it doesn't get to do it
2. probably to help avoid choice paralysis. i had a herald in the last campaign i ran and she seemed to be fine with her spell selection.

 

[PauloR]

Thanks for the responses. It seems oath spells are in the subclass and how you use oath spells is in the class description. On this case, how herald use oath spells is up for the DM and I think what people think is most reasonable would be to add to the spell list. This means herald will have quite a bit less spells prepared than paladins of the same level (a bit more or less than half, depending on cha mod and level), but i think it doesn't matter a lot unless you have a herald and a paladin on the same group.
So I guess it was a deliberate decision to cut down on paladins prepared spells when designing the herald. I'm not quite sure i agree but I can always talk to my DM.

Thanks again

 

[Tessarael]

If you prepare spells like a Herald, adding to your spell list gives you more options as to which spells you can prepare. It does not meet that the Oath archetype spells are all prepared.

You are correct that this is different from D&D. In D&D, the Oath spells are all prepared without taking up any preparation slots. So yes, an A5E Herald will have fewer prepared spells, as they don't add the Oath spell list to the prepared spells. Of course, your DM could house rule to allow it.

 

[PauloR]

Yeah, im thinking that too, because in A5e you add a subschool to your spell list, in DnD you get two 'free' spells per spell level, that you cant swap out. So up an down sides to both I guess

 

[Tessarael]

Yes. There's a lot more variety with adding a sub-school to your spell list, as opposed to just two spells of each level, though it does depend on the school.

I have had similar thoughts regarding Warlock. I wish the Warlock archetypes would add the additional spell list options to always know spells. Because they don't, and the main Warlock spell list has good spell options, I have only used one spell (Freedom of Movement) from my expanded spell list options. The others just aren't good enough for general usage to have instead of some other spell, as Warlocks cannot change spells on a long rest. I would likely have used them a little more if they could be swapped on a long rest (some folks house rule that).

 

[Chaltab]

1. add them to the herald spell list. adding spells to your prepared list is baked into the paladin class, not its subclasses. the herald doesn't share it so it doesn't get to do it
2. probably to help avoid choice paralysis. i had a herald in the last campaign i ran and she seemed to be fine with her spell selection.

I think it's mitigated by the fact that Heralds in A5E get Combat Maneuvers, which gives them a second list of options besides spells.

Yes. There's a lot more variety with adding a sub-school to your spell list, as opposed to just two spells of each level, though it does depend on the school.

I have had similar thoughts regarding Warlock. I wish the Warlock archetypes would add the additional spell list options to always know spells.

Right, like in 5.24. There's something of a drawback to the fact A5E was the first major rework of 5E. It means lot of the QOL features from later in 5E D&D's evolution aren't really part of A5E. Though I'm sure there could be balance issues with giving them all their pact spells always prepared, given how Warlock's use spell points in this system.