What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Umbran]

Not having normative behavior means that you can do whatever you like. Are we saying there are no best practices in RPG play?

Are you claiming there are, and you know them?
Are you going to claim "zero/minimal GM force" is a "best practice"?

I agree that we don't want to other different playstyles, but given that RPGs share a common frame of reference the use of 'normal' doesn't have to be making that strong a move.

RPG play is a leisure entertainment with many, many variations and valid different preferences. Your risk of othering playstyles is very high if you don't take time and care that is not evident when the preference slides in under a naming convention.

Folks ought to show work that minimizing GM force is really an overall best practice, rather than just assert it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The GM literally are god in many RPGs. If something happens to a player character its on the GM. If a GM can randomly steal players spell components, they can also randomly steal enemies weapons.


There are rare cases when its on the player, like when they decide to jump a cliff or something as clearly suicidal.




Difference is that this thread specifically asks for feedback from players, not GMs.

I feel exactly the same way when I'm a player. There's no difference to me on that score. That's my feedback as a player. It's not railroading because the player can still do what they want through their PC. And I think some people get too emotionally involved with their characters in my opinion and to my taste.

 

[Fenris-77]

The GM literally are god in many RPGs. If something happens to a player character its on the GM. If a GM can randomly steal players spell components, they can also randomly steal enemies weapons.

This is one take. A curious take. A take that doesn't align with most actual RPG books, but it's a take.

There are rare cases when its on the player, like when they decide to jump a cliff or something as clearly suicidal.

It's not rare. The vast majority of PCs die because of the actions they chose to engage in. It's no rare or strange for that to be the case.

 

[Fenris-77]

Are you claiming there are, and you know them?
Are you going to claim "zero/minimal GM force" is a "best practice"?

Are you being provocative on purpose? The amount of ink spilled on best practices for RPG play can be measured in gallons. Some of it dumb, some of it trite, but lots of it insightful and useful. So let's not pretend that isn't that case.

RPG play is a leisure entertainment with many, many variations and valid different preferences. Your risk of othering playstyles is very high if you don't take time and care that is not evident when the preference slides in under a naming convention.

I agree completely.

Folks ought to show work that minimizing GM force is really an overall best practice, rather than just assert it.

You could do the same in opposite direction if that's what you think.

 

[Celebrim]

Let us turn this around: What uses of GM force AREN'T railroading?

What do you mean by "GM force"? Is it a synonym for GM fiat?

 

[Fenris-77]

What do you mean by "GM force"? Is it a synonym for GM fiat?

I wouldn't say so, although there is some significant overlap.

 

[Umbran]

Are you being provocative on purpose?

I am raising questions that I think matter in this context.

The amount of ink spilled on best practices for RPG play can be measured in gallons. Some of it dumb, some of it trite, but lots of it insightful and useful. So let's not pretend that isn't that case.

Do you find that ink spilled to be particularly consistent? Because I don't.

However, I find that to be a good thing - what constitutes a good practice varies so much with playstyle, that we need a whole lot of ink spilled to cover all the things people like to do.

So, again, I think I'd need people to show the work in determining that minimal GM force is really an overall best practice, instead of just their preference.

You could do the same in opposite direction if that's what you think.

Burden of proof lies with the one who makes the assertion. If someone wants to claim that "zero/minimal GM force" (or similar) is an overall best practice, they should have the receipts. If I ask, "show me," I should be shown the reciepts, not told I should try to prove otherwise.

The whole, "<controversial position> prove me wrong" stance is nonsense in a rhetorical sense.

 

[Celebrim]

I wouldn't say so, although there is some significant overlap.

Ok, so what is it exactly? I could guess at what is meant by the term but I can't really answer questions about it without some exacting definition.

 

[Fenris-77]

Do you find that ink spilled to be particularly consistent? Because I don't.

I think I was pretty clear that not all of that ink is useful, but that doesn't mean there isn't lots of relatively easy to find superb advice about how to run various kinds of RPG systems and genres.

However, I find that to be a good thing - what constitutes a good practice varies so much with playstyle, that we need a whole lot of ink spilled to cover all the things people like to do.

So, again, I think I'd need people to show the work in determining that minimal GM force is really an overall best practice, instead of just their preference.

Do they though? When you aren't prepared to show your work? Your position assumes that there is no good advice to find, which is a strange position to take. So I guess, since we're asking, feel free to demonstrate. Asking people to prove their work when you aren't prepared to is very passive aggressive, no?

Burden of proof lies with the one who makes the assertion. If someone wants to claim that "zero/minimal GM force" (or similar) is an overall best practice, they should have the receipts. If I ask, "show me," I should be shown the reciepts, not told I should try to prove otherwise.

The whole, "<controversial position> prove me wrong" stance is nonsense in a rhetorical sense.

Hah, no. The existence of good RPG advice isn't something I need to demonstrate, it's a casually, and trivially obvious fact. You are the one making the assumption that needs demonstration, not me. If you like I can provide a list of the 20 or so RPG blogs I follow because they regularly have great reviews about adventure design, or great ideas about how to use random elements, or whatever. You may have to do some digging to find advice that suits your particular game, or genre, but it's not like the info is hidden or anything.

I'll toss the idea of rhetorical nonsense back to you with a bit of mustard on it.

 

[Reynard]

How was this theft achieved? Why were the characters targeted? How did the culprits know of their arrival and that they possessed a fork?

The player characters came in through a permanent gate to the feywild, and that gate had been enchanted to relieve anyone passing through of their tuning forks if they have them. The Winter Coup took place a while ago, relative time speaking, and the Winter Court has had time to lock down the feywild and turn its magic to their desires.