Arioch

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

How powerful would he be in Krustyverse?

 

[Upper_Krust]

How powerful would he be in Krustyverse?

I always think of Arioch in the context of the Michael Moorcock books where he is the Prince of Swords. Thus we need to turn to the original Deities & Demigods which has him as a 379 HP Greater God - which converts to an Intermediate Deity in modern D&D (3e onwards) - only the 400 HP Pantheon Heads are Greater Gods in 3e onwards.

Thus in 5th Edition (my God Rules that is): Arioch would be a Challenge Rating 32 Intermediate Deity with 120 Hit Dice. Doing a quick conversion of his stats: S: 25, D: 25, I: 25, CO: 25, W: 21, CH: Var.

Pre Purviews & Boons (which all give incremental Ability Score bonuses) average Intermediate Ability Scores would be 2 x 30, 2 x 24, 2 x 18. However, we need to split the difference on his top 4 scores. So S: 27, D: 27, CO: 27, I: 27, W: 18, CH: 18 - he can have 3 Purviews* (each give +2 to a score) as well as 3 Divine Boons and 1 Mythic Boon (each give +1 to a score).

*Chaos, Evil and possibly Magic or Trickery.

Not sure what class best suits him - Possibly Eldritch Knight...any thoughts on this? At Divine Rank 5 he would be able to cast 9th-level spells as an Eldritch Knight.

If so that's 120d10 + 960 = 1620 HP with Con 27 (it may be higher depending upon Boons).

He would have 3 Artifacts (at Divine Rank 5). Potentially a +5 Sword (if we just assume flat bonuses and no other properties) dealing 170 (36d8+8) on a Hit....before Divine Boons.

As a CR 32 being I consider him a Boss fight for a party of Divine Rank 3 Demigods or a Solo Boss for a party of Divine Rank 2 Quasi-deities. Below that and its just going to be painful.

Mathematically, I originally had the Intermediate God Multiplier at x5 (since that's what the math progression suggests), but the formula progression (for consistency) suggests x6. While an extra 1 to the multiplier might not seem that big a deal here it is a 20% damage increase.

Minor Trivia: In our Campaign many years ago, the NPC Doomstar (500th-level Wizard-Psionicist) killed Arioch with a Magic Missile spell - though he fled the scene rather than take on all three Sword Gods.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Eldritch Knight might fit Arioch's manifestation, but with the way Melnibonean gods work (avatars possessing only one of the deity's classes) a straight translation of the Deities & Demigods class listings might be simpler.

 

[Nephilim00]

Moorcock also portrayed Arioch as a human from the end of time who used monumentally advanced tech to pretend to be a demon god to Elric.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Moorcock also portrayed Arioch as a human from the end of time who used monumentally advanced tech to pretend to be a demon god to Elric.

Magic is a form of technology from a certain point of view. ...and sufficiently advanced technology is nearly indistinguishable from magic. Although I tend to see Moorcock doing that as just another example of him exploring endless possibilities. To me, Arioch will always be a legit demon who uses both magic and technology.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Eldritch Knight might fit Arioch's manifestation, but with the way Melnibonean gods work (avatars possessing only one of the deity's classes) a straight translation of the Deities & Demigods class listings might be simpler.

You just gave me an idea for a new Divine Boon amigo.

That aside, I don't see the need for 1E style "Gods can have all the classes" - it carries FAR too much baggage in any Edition past first. Classes get way too many abilities to be allowing Gods to have multiple such classes. I mean you could probably allow extra classes as Divine Boons, but I think it would dilute deities to the point you may as well remove all classes and just have a more bland 'immortal' Class.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

You just gave me an idea for a new Divine Boon amigo.

That aside, I don't see the need for 1E style "Gods can have all the classes" - it carries FAR too much baggage in any Edition past first. Classes get way too many abilities to be allowing Gods to have multiple such classes. I mean you could probably allow extra classes as Divine Boons, but I think it would dilute deities to the point you may as well remove all classes and just have a more bland 'immortal' Class.

Dilute? I disagree. I'm more inclined to think deities, much like mortals, would pick up a bunch of classes and skills over the course of their (very long) lives that they may not necessarily advertise or use very often.

Some they may even forget they have acquired until it becomes relevant (Fizban style). Even a mortal like Driz'zt had a few levels in mage (if you believe he cast fireball like they say in the books).

In fact, I'm not even entirely opposed to the idea of giving all gods of a certain tier the Polymath ability for free and making it a cosmic ability. I don't think having a bunch of classes would dilute them though. I think gods are more defined by their personalities and preferences than by class levels.

For example...Hercules. Sure, he might have a temper and prefer to bash an enemy's face in, but that doesn't mean he'd be clueless about magic. He might even be really good at it. Classes to me are more like skills one can learn than defining characteristics.

I can see how someone might define themselves by their class, but that's no different than defining yourself by your current job title. I, personally, have had many jobs and learned many "classes", but at the end of the day, I'm just me. Even though I've certainly gained levels in Fighter, Rogue, Expert, Commoner, and possibly a level in Monk.

It's definitely an interesting topic to think about though. What truly defines a god? There are many ways to look at it and approach it I think.

PS - Please pardon my mental vomit. lol
My brain exploded with ideas, far too many to write here. It's a topic that fascinates me.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Dilute? I disagree. I'm more inclined to think deities, much like mortals, would pick up a bunch of classes and skills over the course of their (very long) lives that they may not necessarily advertise or use very often.

If this was first Edition I would agree.

However, every class gains so many abilities, sub-class features and so on in any Edition from 3E onwards, that it would make characters virtually unplayable in terms of complexity.

For mechanical reasons alone, I have limited the 'mortal' classes to 20th.

Some they may even forget they have acquired until it becomes relevant (Fizban style). Even a mortal like Driz'zt had a few levels in mage (if you believe he cast fireball like they say in the books).

Infinite class levelling is too unwieldy.

You can have any combination of Classes within your 20 levels.

In fact, I'm not even entirely opposed to the idea of giving all gods of a certain tier the Polymath ability for free and making it a cosmic ability. I don't think having a bunch of classes would dilute them though. I think gods are more defined by their personalities and preferences than by class levels.

I agree. So no point burdening them with features from several classes. Thor doesn't need Bard or Druid levels when he can cast Wish at will.

For example...Hercules. Sure, he might have a temper and prefer to bash an enemy's face in, but that doesn't mean he'd be clueless about magic. He might even be really good at it. Classes to me are more like skills one can learn than defining characteristics.

Doesn't need 'magic classes', he can cast Wish at will.

I can see how someone might define themselves by their class, but that's no different than defining yourself by your current job title. I, personally, have had many jobs and learned many "classes", but at the end of the day, I'm just me. Even though I've certainly gained levels in Fighter, Rogue, Expert, Commoner, and possibly a level in Monk.

Any combination up to 20 is fine.

It's definitely an interesting topic to think about though. What truly defines a god? There are many ways to look at it and approach it I think.

Power defines Immortals, Worship separates God's from Anti-Gods.

PS - Please pardon my mental vomit. lol
My brain exploded with ideas, far too many to write here. It's a topic that fascinates me.

I appreciate the interest amigo - hopefully I answer all questions in the book.