D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[Zardnaar]

This is a very difficult thing to ever measure.

You can't look at cons because really only super-fans and industry insiders go to those.
You can't look at 'D&D Beyond' because that's only D&D.
You can't look at Roll20 because there are very large games who's playerbase almost universally reject it (Pathfinder). You can't look at competitors if they're mostly self-hosted.
You can't post a poll because most people won't see it.

All we have is guesses.

So people fall back to sales because if a game is selling well enough to not have to shutter its doors and only sell through the 'discount bin' of DriveThruRPG PDFs then it probably has players playing it "somewhere". Or maybe everyone playing it just already bought the books (somehow I suspect there are more than 0 AD&D1E players out there, yet no one's bought any new books for it in decades).

I also suspect there's a lot of sales through kickstarters that have gone to people who never ended up playing the game they bought. That's just fine for the sellers of a one-off, but it's not generating active community.

This is why I don't buy new RPGs. A lot are cool but youre really paying for a pretty book to put on a shelf.

 

[Bernard Corwin]

This is why I don't buy new RPGs. A lot are cool but youre really paying for a pretty book to put on a shelf.

There are people who make inexpensive games meant to be played, not collected. I know, I'm two of them.

 

[Greg K]

Looking at my current list of favorite games, it is almost all indie games.

• "Generic": Savage Worlds
• Fantasy: Barbarians of Lemuria, Honor + Intrigue, BASH! Fantasy: Legends of Steel, BASH! Fantasy,
• Pulp: Dicey Tales
• Sci Fi: BASH! Sci Fi, Cyberpunk 2020
• Superhero: BASH!: Ultimate Edition, Icons: Assembled Edition, Mutants & Masterminds 2e/3e
• Emulation/Narrative: Black Star, Magnum Fury, Outgunned, Outgunned Adventure, Cortex Plus, Retrostar, Urban Knights
• Other: Awfully Cheerful Engine, Ghostbusters, Meddling Kids, Stranger Stuff (Tinyd6), Teenage Witchcraft (Tinyd6)
• Honorable Mentions: Everyday Heroes, other Tinyd6 (except Tiny Supers), Pip System, Ubiquity System
• checking out: BESM 4e, Marvel Multiverse

 

[Brendan Byrd]

I know, I'm two of them.

I’m almost afraid to ask…
???

 

[Saracenus]

There are people who make inexpensive games meant to be played, not collected. I know, I'm two of them.

I’m almost afraid to ask…
???

We don't talk about Bruno!

 

[whimsychris123]

Just want to point out: One thread with Mike Shea, Mike Mearls, and Matt Colville?! Three of the smartest people in the industry. EN World is where it's at.

 

[Kichwas]

I think start playing would have the best data set. You aren't going to get a perfect set of data and I don't think you need one for these sorts of discussion unless you are after a very specific insight.

I know people who swear by startplaying and people who think it's heresy.

But yeah there is no good data. We have our gut feelings for the most part.

We're all kind of in echo chambers though. I think the D&D folks think it is way more dominant than it actually is. And I think the non-D&D folks like myself think D&D has lost a lot more ground than it actually has.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are people who make inexpensive games meant to be played, not collected. I know, I'm two of them.

Then you've got a smaller book to put on the shelf.

One can also like D&D and not be into RPGs generally.

 

[MacDhomnuill]

I know people who swear by startplaying and people who think it's heresy.

But yeah there is no good data. We have our gut feelings for the most part.

We're all kind of in echo chambers though. I think the D&D folks think it is way more dominant than it actually is. And I think the non-D&D folks like myself think D&D has lost a lot more ground than it actually has.

I think if there was some way that we could combine good data from start playing, roll20, alchemy, and a few of the other VTT‘s we could get a really good look at the VTT segment of the population but likelihood of those companies are wanting to share is very low.