D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

@mearls ..... Can you share here your very positive thoughts on the new DnD team, please?
I think their actions speak for themselves, but here is what I am seeing that I think is a critical change:

They're listening to learn, not to correct. What struck me about Justice's response to Bob Worldbuilder was how practical it was. Bob thought the encounters in the new Starter Set robbed players of agency. Justice replied with examples from playtests, focus groups, and player research that showed new players wanted situations with clear threats and drama. His response was, "I aimed to do A, B, and C, and the research pointed at X, Y, and Z to do that."

It acknowledged that Bob's personal take is right for him, but the design aimed somewhere else. That's confidence! Mixed with clear communication! We haven't seen that in a long time. This might not be fair, but in the past I feel like the D&D team had been telling D&D players what they should like, rather than engaging in a dialogue about it.

Across a lot of the gaming industry, there's this idea that the audience is wrong. That may sound weird, but during the development of 5e there were many tense, angry meetings where designers insisted to me that the playtest feedback was "ruining" the game.

That doesn't mean you blindly follow the audience, though. With the Starter Set, Justice wasn't trying to convince Bob he was wrong. He just explained why the encounters didn't match what an experienced player like Bob is looking for.

That confidence combined with curiosity can be very powerful.
 

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I mentioned upthread that I would look at the Gen Con numbers and give some thoughts on them. I track based on number of available seats for TTRPGs, then track how many of those seats fill before the show. Roughly speaking:
  • D&D has the most seats of all games, but it is not a majority of all seats. Its around 25% to 30%.
  • A game's presence is almost entirely driven by a publisher's willingness to pay for event space, recruit GMs, and provide content.
  • You do get individual GMs or groups running games. They account for a big chunk of the total seats available, but they tend to be scattered across a lot of games.
Comparing pre and post-pandemic, two things stand out:
  • More publishers than ever are organizing and sponsoring events at the show
  • D&D's share of events is down quite a bit, but at the same time the total number of TTRPG events is up a lot
Broadly speaking, I think this maps to a key shift in TTRPGs over the past 10 years. It also highlights a fundamental difference between this fad-level resurgence of D&D and the early 1980s.

In the early 80s, once TTRPGs started to lose shelf space in mainstream retailers the hobby had no way to keep drawing in new players at scale. I vividly remember buying my D&D stuff at Child World in Salem, NH. One day my mom took me there and... the D&D stuff was just gone. That was it. At that age, in that area, I had no way to find D&D products.

Jump forward to 2020. Pandemic lockdowns have closed everything. I want to get into D&D, whether I'm new or returning. What do I do?

I buy online. Stores are literally closed.

I think that buying pattern stuck. Whether it's Kickstarter, buying on Amazon, eBay, or whatever other platform, D&D Beyond, or buying direct from a publisher, a huge cohort of people learned to buy TTRPGs online.

Stores picked up some of those people post-lockdowns, and gamers who shopped there before COVID went back. TCGs in particular helped drive this - it's better to buy an expensive Pokemon card in person than online. You get to inspect what you're buying and ensure it's legit.

That's created a marketplace that the 1980s could never deliver. I think that's why we're seeing dozens of games hit six or even seven figures in crowdfunding each year. It has also opened up a vast swathe of people who never would have ventured beyond D&D. When your next game is a click (or a Facebook ad) away, it's much easier to move beyond D&D.

Today, I think D&D is about 25% of the TTRPG market. It's by far the biggest - I'd peg the next company at about 10% - but there are far more publishers around than there were 10 years ago. I believe that TTRPGs are slowly transforming into something that looks like a hybrid of miniatures and board games - one big player with mainstream reach at the top, but a vast and diverse ecosystem driven by different creative approaches.

(As an aside, TSR also specifically undertook strategies to choke out competitors at retail. The massive flood of products from the early 90s up to the end of 4e was designed to tie down so many distributor dollars that other games couldn't take root. Instead, the net result was TSR and later WotC publishing lots of products that never sold enough units to make a reasonable return on investment. It's also clear that the strategy didn't work well. It didn't protect D&D. It hastened its decline.)
 

(As an aside, TSR also specifically undertook strategies to choke out competitors at retail. The massive flood of products from the early 90s up to the end of 4e was designed to tie down so many distributor dollars that other games couldn't take root. Instead, the net result was TSR and later WotC publishing lots of products that never sold enough units to make a reasonable return on investment. It's also clear that the strategy didn't work well. It didn't protect D&D. It hastened its decline.)

This is one of the reasons I'm nervous about the growth of D&D Beyond. We're already starting to see D&D Beyond exclusive products from both Wizards of the Coast and other publishers (including the 5e Cthulhu book by one Mr. Mike Mearls!). Kobold Press recently announced two books using D&D 2024 rules instead of Tales of the Valiant (Northlands Sagas and the new Creature Codex revamp), very likely so they can also release these books on D&D Beyond.

D&D Beyond is a honeypot for publishers – publish your material using D&D 2024 rules and you have a shot at publishing them on D&D Beyond. It's profitable enough that Kobold Press is publishing two of its books for their competitor's system instead of their own. Having talked to several publishers published on D&D Beyond, the money is simply too good to pass up.

And the platform is clearly built for lock-in. Monthly subscriptions are required for unlimited character building and product sharing. The license allows for no actual product ownership. If you buy your material there and your friends share it, you're a lot less likely to want to switch to another system, move to another platform, or stop paying your monthly fee.

I worry that lock-in makes it harder to switch to other systems. It could be a big investment for a group to get copies of Shadow of the Weird Wizard in everyone's hands if everyone already has access to everything they need to keep playing D&D 2024 on D&D Beyond.

I don't see WOTC engaging in a nefarious strategy to choke out the competition going on right now. I see WOTC eager to get a cut of every RPG product they can (just as they hoped to do with the OGL 1.1) and building a platform to draw in customers and business partners and keep them there. I see publishers who simply can't pass up the money they get if they publish on D&D Beyond. It's not an exclusive contract, so it feels safe. It was also safe to sell on Amazon until suddenly there wasn't anywhere else left you could reasonably sell stuff.
 

I don't see WOTC engaging in a nefarious strategy to choke out the competition going on right now. I see WOTC eager to get a cut of every RPG product they can (just as they hoped to do with the OGL 1.1) and building a platform to draw in customers and business partners and keep them there.


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This is one of the reasons I'm nervous about the growth of D&D Beyond. We're already starting to see D&D Beyond exclusive products from both Wizards of the Coast and other publishers (including the 5e Cthulhu book by one Mr. Mike Mearls!). Kobold Press recently announced two books using D&D 2024 rules instead of Tales of the Valiant (Northlands Sagas and the new Creature Codex revamp), very likely so they can also release these books on D&D Beyond.

D&D Beyond is a honeypot for publishers – publish your material using D&D 2024 rules and you have a shot at publishing them on D&D Beyond. It's profitable enough that Kobold Press is publishing two of its books for their competitor's system instead of their own. Having talked to several publishers published on D&D Beyond, the money is simply too good to pass up.

And the platform is clearly built for lock-in. Monthly subscriptions are required for unlimited character building and product sharing. The license allows for no actual product ownership. If you buy your material there and your friends share it, you're a lot less likely to want to switch to another system, move to another platform, or stop paying your monthly fee.

I worry that lock-in makes it harder to switch to other systems. It could be a big investment for a group to get copies of Shadow of the Weird Wizard in everyone's hands if everyone already has access to everything they need to keep playing D&D 2024 on D&D Beyond.

I don't see WOTC engaging in a nefarious strategy to choke out the competition going on right now. I see WOTC eager to get a cut of every RPG product they can (just as they hoped to do with the OGL 1.1) and building a platform to draw in customers and business partners and keep them there. I see publishers who simply can't pass up the money they get if they publish on D&D Beyond. It's not an exclusive contract, so it feels safe. It was also safe to sell on Amazon until suddenly there wasn't anywhere else left you could reasonably sell stuff.
Kobold just redid a lot of those monsters in ToV..... So I'm not sure if that parts valid. I agree lock in is part of the strategy here though.
 

This is all anecdotal, but touches on points Sly and Umbran have mentioned.

A portion of when I was more active playing or running rpgs (~ 10 years) here in the US, was in a town that had a university, situated squarely in an ag county.

The average income for a family of four living there was ~$46K/year.

During that time, I played or ran D&D, Shadowrun, Marvel Superheroes, Paranoia and a little V:tM. I heard about Rifts, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu and I think Runequest, but never played any of those.

So, five systems over about a decade where there weren't a lot of players necessarily, but enough to have a base to support some play.

Presently, I'm now fifteen minutes from a metropolitan city. There are indie game cons planned this summer, practically organized on their own by their communities. There are at least two discords I'm aware of, one for D&D and one for OSR/indie games where regular meetups in person are arranged.

When ppl online ask, "What are you playing or running this weekend?" I'm amazed by the variety of responses in games people are trying out for the first time or continuing to play.

In terms of vibes, this is what feels significantly different, compared to the time frame I mentioned before. Not the amount of activity, but that people are just playing a wider variety of games besides, or in addition to, D&D.

That kind of exposure is a positive development.
 

This is all anecdotal, but touches on points Sly and Umbran have mentioned.

A portion of when I was more active playing or running rpgs (~ 10 years) here in the US, was in a town that had a university, situated squarely in an ag county.

The average income for a family of four living there was ~$46K/year.

During that time, I played or ran D&D, Shadowrun, Marvel Superheroes, Paranoia and a little V:tM. I heard about Rifts, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu and I think Runequest, but never played any of those.

So, five systems over about a decade where there weren't a lot of players necessarily, but enough to have a base to support some play.

Presently, I'm now fifteen minutes from a metropolitan city. There are indie game cons planned this summer, practically organized on their own by their communities. There are at least two discords I'm aware of, one for D&D and one for OSR/indie games where regular meetups in person are arranged.

When ppl online ask, "What are you playing or running this weekend?" I'm amazed by the variety of responses in games people are trying out for the first time or continuing to play.

In terms of vibes, this is what feels significantly different, compared to the time frame I mentioned before. Not the amount of activity, but that people are just playing a wider variety of games besides, or in addition to, D&D.

That kind of exposure is a positive development.
I wonder what the uptake is for new, different games. that is, I wonder how many people try a different game and decide to switch to it, versus going back to their old stand by (D&D or otherwise).

Like, if I wasn't specifically teaching D&D (by request) to my new group of millenial players, I would have introduced them to RPGs via Daggerheart for sure.
 



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