D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[Parmandur]

I don't understand why people don't trust the IcV2 data, which they had trusted for 25 years. Is it just because they don't like the results?

As someone who finds the results intriguing, if not even promising, I do think it worth taking then with some grain of salt as partial and somewhat obscure. But I would have said the same thing about ICv2 at any point, while taking it seriously as a source of some information.

My main caveat is I am not sure how much the Crooked d Hollow and Cosmere numbers mean: is it all Kickstarter, or have they sold very well in small retailers, or both?

I do think Pathfinder fans were shocked to see Pathfinder so low, and Shadowdark and Draw Steel fans shocked to not see those games present at all.

 

[bedir than]

My main caveat is I am not sure how much the Crooked d Hollow and Cosmere numbers mean: is it all Kickstarter, or have they sold very well in small retailers, or both?

Since the Cosmere Kickstarter was already fulfilled in the time period of the most recent ICV2 it wasn't included

 

[Parmandur]

Since the Cosmere Kickstarter was already fulfilled in the time period of the most recent ICV2 it wasn't included

Seems reasonable. I'm partial to the Cosmere RPG, so I am trying to temper my read on the situation. But the evidence, such as this survey and the Amazon monthly sales numbers, do seem to indicate it is selling very well indeed.

 

[dbolack]

I don't understand why people don't trust the IcV2 data, which they had trusted for 25 years. Is it just because they don't like the results?

Many people never trusted it.

 

[pemerton]

Was 4e best version? Yes, no, maybe. Depends who you ask and what they want out of game. Was it best designed from perspective of heaving focused vision, intended play style and rules that supported that style very well? Hell yea. At it's heart, it's mmo style tactical skirmish game.

Not really.

 

[darjr]

There have been changes in the distribution, which if you look ICV2 also gets there numbers from.

Also some bigger ish books don’t go thru distribution and are a store by store affair. Which is much harder to capture.

Add to that they are also now pulling crowdfunding numbers when they didn’t before, regardless if it effects Cosmeres ranking or not.

I will say I am glad they are still working at it.

 

[GrimCo]

Not really.

Care to elaborate?

 

[pemerton]

Care to elaborate?

@Campbell said it best, years ago:

4e Classic (4eC) sings with the right group, but requires a high degree of player buy-in to get the results that I want out of it. I tend to view 4eC as a visceral game about violently capable individuals who set out willingly or not to irrevocably enact change in their worlds who end up becoming mythic figures in their own right. This is highly reinforced in the assumed setting of the game with the backdrop of the Dawn War, tales of the fall of civilizations, and highly active Gods, Demon Princes, Primordials, etc. 4eC presents a world on fire in desperate need of heroes. Thematically it strikes the same currents that Greek Myth, the Diablo games, and Exalted does though tied to a more mortal perspective.

Of course to really embrace these aspects players need to be able to shift between awareness of the game's narrative to engaging its combat encounter mini-game while remaining focused on the underlying fiction. 4eC asks a lot out of the players, but I find the relatively unique combination of satisfying my narrative jones while engaging my tactical/strategic mind incredibly refreshing.

 

[GrimCo]

@Campbell said it best, years ago:

And it's pretty much same thing i said, so i don't see where disagreement comes from. Guy you quoted went into great lengths to say pretty much same thing i did. 4e is polished ruleset that supports one particular play style very well.

 

[soviet]

And it's pretty much same thing i said, so i don't see where disagreement comes from. Guy you quoted went into great lengths to say pretty much same thing i did. 4e is polished ruleset that supports one particular play style very well.

The difference is that you were insinuating it isn't an RPG.